Brian Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 I'm with Red on this one. A lot of lads "lose their youth" after getting a girl pregnant and these are the responsible ones, who live up to what they have done/ Josh has always been a lad like that and has never deliberatly set out to upset anyone. Good for him, standing by Maddy and trying to get a job. Evie will find another boyfriend, if she wants to. It will be interesting to see how it plays out over the next few months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slade Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 I seriously disagree with this. (Sorry, Slade, I know it must seem like I'm picking on you, it's just we seem to disagree on a lot these days.) Josh slept with Maddy, despite supposedly being "in love" with Evelyn, so the consequences are at least as much his fault as hers.She doesn't have the advantage of being able to walk away from the situation so I don't see why he should be allowed to escape responsibility or why Maddy should abort the baby just because it's convenient for him or because Evelyn's too selfish and immature to deal with it.(Yes, I really don't like Evelyn and frankly think she's everything that people accuse Maddy of being, it's just no-one ever seems to call her out on it.) It's not so much that we disagree it's that you don't like whenever I criticise Maddy. Let's be honest here, with the exception of the post I made last week about Andy killing Pirovic all the times you claim to have picked on me (your words not mine) have been in direct/indirect response to a comment I've made about her. Would you have even responded if that had been another character such as Hannah, Denny or Sophie? Yes I know this is a discussion forum and that's what it's all about but I have to question why someone seems to take it so personally any time I criticise a particular character. You mentioned a while back that you get defensive. TBH I genuinely don't understand why as some of your comments directed towards other characters over the years have been far worse that anything I've ever posted. Even now you still bash Evelyn, Brax, Andy and Josh in virtual every episode they're in. But hey I suppose that's okay isn't it as long as the negativity isn't directed towards Maddy. I'm with Red on this one. A lot of lads "lose their youth" after getting a girl pregnant and these are the responsible ones, who live up to what they have done/ Josh has always been a lad like that and has never deliberatly set out to upset anyone. Good for him, standing by Maddy and trying to get a job. Evie will find another boyfriend, if she wants to. It will be interesting to see how it plays out over the next few months. Brian, just going back to the point I made earlier on in the week about being entertained. The very last part of my previous post was really venting out of frustration. I don't really care or want to see a teenage pregnancy storyline about some self-centred drama queen, with everybody around her pandering to her every need telling her how brave she's being. I would rather they just explored Josh trying to rebuild things with Evelyn after stuffing them up and perhaps frustrating myself seeing Oscar making a fool of himself trying to make princess Maddy fall in love with him (not that I would really enjoy that but it's better than an pregnancy storyline with her drawing several characters in). So I mentioned the abortion comment as a hope for the writers to somehow bring an end to this storyline ASAP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H&Alover Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 Whatever mistakes Josh has made, cheating with Evelyn behind Maddy's back, and I still stand by my statement if he had been truly happy with her no matter how much Evelyn came onto him it wouldn't have worked. He made a big mistake by sleeping with Maddy when he was in a vulnerable state, but he is doing the right thing now by taking responsibility and standing by Maddy, it's going to be life changing for him and Evelyn backing off means there is one less worry for him. Maddy hasn't always been an innocent in the past, hasn't she tried to become between couples? If Ash knows Brax as well as he says he does, shouldn't he realise keep pushing him to tell 'the truth' is the wrong way to go about him doing that? Brax looked really panicked when Ash said he was leaving town for a while. The way Brax is bottling things up is not good and if he doesn't tell someone soon he's going to implode. The night on the island was certainly interesting, but good old Alf gave out some good advice to Matt who did listen only to spoil it when they got back. Did Spencer think Sasha had told Matt all about what happened with April(?) forgotten 'her' name. The fact VJ had had a tattoo did come out of the blue and I had been reading the Aus thread so realised they are now showing three episodes instead of two, no wonder we're getting more confused. Zac's in a no win position, if he tells Leah, VJ will never trust him again and if he doesn't Leah's going to be angry with him for not telling her. It is an after the event thing so I'd keep quite if I was Zac, Leah will get over it, VJ wouldn't so easily. Girly night + one was good, love how Denny, Sasha, Evelyn and Phoebe accepted Chris as one of their own, nice to see Phoebe mixing with them. I can understand how Denny felt guilty about having a good time and laughing, but Casey wouldn't have wanted her moping around for the rest of her life, it wasn't what he was like. Her turn for a 'chat' with Casey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelica Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 Whatever mistakes Josh has made, cheating with Evelyn behind Maddy's back, and I still stand by my statement if he had been truly happy with her no matter how much Evelyn came onto him it wouldn't have worked. He made a big mistake by sleeping with Maddy when he was in a vulnerable state, but he is doing the right thing now by taking responsibility and standing by Maddy, it's going to be life changing for him and Evelyn backing off means there is one less worry for him. Maddy hasn't always been an innocent in the past, hasn't she tried to become between couples? If Ash knows Brax as well as he says he does, shouldn't he realise keep pushing him to tell 'the truth' is the wrong way to go about him doing that? Brax looked really panicked when Ash said he was leaving town for a while. The way Brax is bottling things up is not good and if he doesn't tell someone soon he's going to implode. The night on the island was certainly interesting, but good old Alf gave out some good advice to Matt who did listen only to spoil it when they got back. Did Spencer think Sasha had told Matt all about what happened with April(?) forgotten 'her' name. The fact VJ had had a tattoo did come out of the blue and I had been reading the Aus thread so realised they are now showing three episodes instead of two, no wonder we're getting more confused. Zac's in a no win position, if he tells Leah, VJ will never trust him again and if he doesn't Leah's going to be angry with him for not telling her. It is an after the event thing so I'd keep quite if I was Zac, Leah will get over it, VJ wouldn't so easily. Girly night + one was good, love how Denny, Sasha, Evelyn and Phoebe accepted Chris as one of their own, nice to see Phoebe mixing with them. I can understand how Denny felt guilty about having a good time and laughing, but Casey wouldn't have wanted her moping around for the rest of her life, it wasn't what he was like. Her turn for a 'chat' with Casey. It was nice to have the boys bonding on the island, and the girls having a girly night (I really feel Chris seems to interact better platonically with girls than he does with boys). I just think the teenagers/young adults in H&A don't have enough interaction with people outside of their romantic relationships I thought it was realistic that Matt tried to extend an olive branch to Spencer, but quickly showed his immaturity in ruining that 2 seconds later to the point that the punch was well deserved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Ranger 1 Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 I seriously disagree with this. (Sorry, Slade, I know it must seem like I'm picking on you, it's just we seem to disagree on a lot these days.) Josh slept with Maddy, despite supposedly being "in love" with Evelyn, so the consequences are at least as much his fault as hers.She doesn't have the advantage of being able to walk away from the situation so I don't see why he should be allowed to escape responsibility or why Maddy should abort the baby just because it's convenient for him or because Evelyn's too selfish and immature to deal with it.(Yes, I really don't like Evelyn and frankly think she's everything that people accuse Maddy of being, it's just no-one ever seems to call her out on it.) It's not so much that we disagree it's that you don't like whenever I criticise Maddy. Let's be honest here, with the exception of the post I made last week about Andy killing Pirovic all the times you claim to have picked on me (your words not mine) have been in direct/indirect response to a comment I've made about her. Would you have even responded if that had been another character such as Hannah, Denny or Sophie? Yes I know this is a discussion forum and that's what it's all about but I have to question why someone seems to take it so personally any time I criticise a particular character. You mentioned a while back that you get defensive. TBH I genuinely don't understand why as some of your comments directed towards other characters over the years have been far worse that anything I've ever posted. Even now you still bash Evelyn, Brax, Andy and Josh in virtual every episode they're in. But hey I suppose that's okay isn't it as long as the negativity isn't directed towards Maddy. I am very very sorry that things have become like this between us because to be honest I've always liked you and kind of considered you a friend, in as much as I can consider anyone on here a friend.I do actually look forward to reading your posts, it's just we seem to be at the extreme ends of opinion on a couple of things at the moment.I went too far with my response, I know that and I wish I'd had the self-restraint to cut back on it a bit.And yes, I'm well aware that I have done and still do show a lot of negativity towards some characters.I guess in a way you could say this is karma for all the times I've written scathing comments about characters and upset their fans.I personally feel that Maddy gets a lot of bad press both on and off screen but I also fully understand that the people who don't like her are sincere.As a fan of Maddy, I'm actually looking forward to this storyline and the possibility of a different side of her character being explored rather than her constantly being portrayed as in the wrong to excuse other characters treating her badly.Far more so than I would having to watch a load of scenes about Josh and Evelyn's relationship, which I have a very low opinion of.I'm trying my best not to upset you, it's not my intention.I really really don't want it to seem like I'm picking on you, I don't think I'm picking on you, I hope that I'm responding to what you write rather than to you personally.Please forgive me if you feel I'm treating you unfairly.I really do just want to discuss the storyline, not turn this into something personal. Maddy hasn't always been an innocent in the past, hasn't she tried to become between couples? I accept that she hasn't always been an innocent but...not sure.She wasn't happy about Spencer and Sasha being together but I'm not sure if it was ever a case of her trying to take him off Sasha.She kissed Matt when Evelyn was interested in him but that was because her drink had been spiked.And of course she slept with Josh when he was with Evelyn (and you can flip the argument there and say if he was happy with Evelyn then he wouldn't have made a move on Maddy...and it was him that initiated it, despite the show trying to make out otherwise), but Evelyn had done the same to her so all's fair. Oh, a couple of odd moments in that episode that I forgot to mention: When Alf and co first arrive on the island, the boat seems to be drifting away as they leave it.And despite promising to take the drinks to the table for Phoebe, Brax appears to just storm off and leave them on the bar! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slade Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 Thanks for the reply Red Ranger. Firstly I don't think you're picking on me and I don't think you went too far with your post at all. I think you feel so passionate about something that you love to discuss it and that's fair enough. That's the point of a discussion forum. And I think Maddy's a character you obviously feel very passionate about. I think I definitely overacted with my last post so I'm sorry if it came across as though I was attacking you. I guess that was out of frustration and I was really trying to avoid making it personal. You've always been a poster that I've respected and I've often looked at your posts as some sort of validation. We've been here around the same time (give or take 6 months) and I used to agree with you a lot i.e. disgusted with Aden for beating up Axel, thought he should have gone to jail for what happened with Rachel and Larry, we both really liked Nicole, couldn't stand Xavier at first then he turned out to being one of our favourite characters. I also felt we had/have a lot in common. Both watched other soaps such as Emmerdale, Corrie, Neighbours etc. We're both huge sci-fi fans (in one of your posts recently you quoted something out of Gotham, which I'm quite enjoying). Our love for UK transformers comics and the fact we are both football fans (I could go on). I'm not sure what's happened but now when I read a lot of your posts I feel like we are on completely different wavelengths which is a shame. I think there were a couple of times, I tried debating with you a while back and also noticed with other posters where you wouldn't back down so I'd got it into my head it was pointless trying to discuss anything so I found myself biting my tongue with a lot of your responses to avoid an argument and I guess that just frustrated me even more. I do think in a lot of cases when you are having a discussion it often comes down to opinion. I hope you continue to respond to my posts when you feel the need because this place would be very boring if everyone agrees and as you said a long time ago you like to be different. Getting back on track you've mentioned several times how people berate Maddy for certain things but give Evelyn a free pass so, if you're game, I would objectively like to discuss this (no vitriol towards her I promise). But before you do I would like to make several points. I do think there is a certain level of double-standards regarding her and Evelyn. I myself am guilty of this but I'm not sure why. I get that the worst she has done is stealing and obviously what happened with Oscar but what struck me is that the people who do care about her character, (I accept there are a lot of people who are indifferent) is that the level of dislike was bordering on universal. This isn't a group of people with similar views. This seems to be a wide range of posters. Even one of the moderators said in another thread that he found her unlikeable (and I've often found him to be very balanced). I've asked myself why. Is it because she is ridiculously good looking blonde (which is a sought after commodity) so people subconsciously take a disliking to her and if she was far less attractive whether people would go easier. I think some of her behaviour is comparable with Evelyn's (I absolutely loathed her incidentally when she was prepared to screw her own uncle over to save Oscar rather than talk him into doing the right thing re Tamara). You may not see it this way but I think Maddy's personality is a lot more annoying than Evelyn's i.e. being bubbly sometimes and the skipping. Whereas Evelyn seems more reserved. I also wonder whether people go easier on Evelyn because she's led a sheltered life, whereas the fact that Maddy was on the run with Spencer made her more streetwise so she should know better. Also Evelyn still hasn't slept with anyone so is portrayed as more innocent (even though we know that's not completely the case) whereas Maddy has so even though Evelyn stole Josh, a lot of people are prepared to make allowances. Then you've got Maddy using Oscar and sleeping with Josh after he found out Casey had died. Even I admitted at the time that it wasn't completely her fault and do accept that certainly with that case she was purposely portrayed in a bad light with Alf accusing her or being low and ignoring her when she told him Josh wanted it just as much as she did. You say Maddy gets a lot of bad press off screen but I can't really comment on that because I try and avoid reading material on soaps to prevent myself from encountering spoilers. So if you care to elaborate I would like to hear that and how you think it influences some fans into not liking her, which I'm presuming is the point you were getting at, unless I've misunderstood. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Ranger 1 Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 Thanks for your reply, Slade.At the danger of going off topic and discussing Maddy when she hasn't been on for days, I can kind of see why people find her annoying.I mean, I like the skipping and the bubbly nature and I don't think that's the reason people dislike her, I think it's more a case that they dislike her anyway and so that behaviour annoys them.I think it's the sulking and pouting and occasional tantrums that got people's backs up, she is bordering on rude towards Roo at times which probably hasn't helped her case.And while I think she gets a lot of flack from other people, I think people do get fed up of Roo going "Oh Maddy" and giving her a hug every time she does something wrong and think she isn't hard enough on her.I have seen negative comments in soap magazines and TV guides:There've been letters about her accompanied by photos with less than complimentary captions and I saw an article in an Australian TV guide dub her a "bad girl" for sleeping with Josh (for a week that hasn't even been shown yet, which gives some idea of how long ago it was at the time).It does seem like I have seen people on other forums excuse Evelyn's behaviour because of what she went through with the cult, whereas a lot of people see Maddy as having run away from a good home because we haven't really seen enough of her background for some to be convinced that there's a reason why she's living with Roo and not them.I do think that when Josh and Evelyn cheated on Maddy it was kind of brushed under the carpet and Maddy was on her own thinking they'd done something wrong while the other characters were indifferent or pleased for them and thought Maddy should get over it; Evelyn's family seemed to be practically encouraging her to go for it.You had John and Marilyn having a go at Josh when he first kissed Evelyn but that got dropped very quickly, the only person that said anything to Evelyn was Oscar and even then it was portrayed as him being wrong to side with Maddy because she was using him.I do think Evelyn very rarely gets called out on her bad behaviour even though she's often unpleasant to people (eg nothing really said about the way she treated Zac, and when Matt did have a go at her for yelling abuse at Sasha he's portrayed as in the wrong).Her slapping Maddy the way she did felt excessive (Maddy didn't do anything like that when the positions were reversed) and inappropriate (it was a wake, she shouldn't have made it about her relationship problems) yet it seemed to be portrayed as though she was in the right.As for the rest of it, I do accept that trying to debate with me can be reminiscent to banging your head against a brick wall since I rarely change my mind over anything or rarely back down.It's a flaw and it's probably one I'm stuck with. As to today's episode and what do you know.I've always felt that Evelyn is at her most likable when she's around Spencer and that proved the case here.I half-seriously remarked last week that she'd probably be after him now she and Josh have broken up and alarm bells did start ringing when she seemed very quick to mention that she was single, but for the most part she was just being a supportive friend.There was a time when I really wanted them together but I think that ship has sailed and I don't think I'd want him with her now.(Mind you, there aren't many options, which is probably why every boy in the year likes Evelyn and Maddy, and Oscar doesn't have a choice.)The round of applause when Spencer came out of the office was a bit cheesy but a heart-warming moment all the same.I just hope that this isn't treated like a miracle cure and we see this affecting him. I thought Sasha was wrong to tell Matt about Spencer, but he took it okay and I guess it doesn't make a difference now.So, the perils of going by trailers:Matt and Sasha did break up but it didn't count.A great episode for Chris, he deals with Spencer sensitively and gives Sasha some good advice.His offer to be Spencer's wingman was sweet, if a bit scary, and he even got a laugh by telling Sasha she can go after hot uni guys now.I'm not sure about the idea of Denny going to uni: It's not for everyone and as she said she's already doing the job she wants, I thought Sasha and Evelyn were a bit pushy. I didn't really like Leah at the end there.I can kind of see where she's coming from, but in this specific incident she overreacted, her "I need to know these things to keep VJ safe" didn't really apply. She can't consider Zac a co-parent one minute and then pull rank on him the next, he needs to be able to make his own calls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHulk Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 Alf's episode count this week:Four. Irene was only in one.Incidentally, I believe this marks the point where the show temporarily went six episodes a week in Australia which probably explains why we're getting Coming Soon trailers covering two episodes most of the time.And may also explain why people seem to be getting confused and thinking stuff in the promo has already happened.As it stands, Matt and Sasha are still together, Leah doesn't know about VJ's tattoo and Spencer has only just punched Matt. (I did think of Roman but didn't include him because he never lived with Leah and VJ, which I believe all the others did.) I continue to really like Ash, he's a far more worthy successor to Heath than Andy, which makes it frustrating to see Andy continuing to get aggro with him for no reason.I'm liking the banter between him and Phoebe, and the fact that he refuses to take Brax's word as law and constantly challenges him.To correct something I said last post, Andy's not illiterate, he just has difficult reading, which is more realistic than the British soaps portraying characters as still having trouble with "The cat sat on the mat" and suddenly panicking when they're repeatedly asked to read after successfully covering for decades. I can't say I have any sympathy for Evelyn, so seeing her portrayed as a victim was a bit frustrating.My point is that it shouldn't be about Josh dividing his time between Evelyn and the baby; if Josh and Evelyn were serious then they'd be spending time with the baby together, as a couple.And I don't really care if Josh cheated: If Evelyn's still hung up on that, she should never have got back with him (and it can't be easy for Maddy to see Josh and Evelyn together as a reminder that they cheated on her).It was hard for Bianca dealing with Heath's child but she tried and ultimately managed. Despite hollow "You still love each other" platitudes, Evelyn didn't even care enough to try.Still...Some more good stuff for Chris, it was nice to see him have a bit of screen time with Sasha and Denny and the fact that everyone just accepted him as "one of the girls".And he even wore the onesie again.Hard not to roll my eyes at Denny suddenly feeling guilty about moving on from Casey, Evelyn actually gave her some pretty good advice. Well, VJ's tattoo was completely left field.I've seen speculation that it was meant to explain Matt Little having a tattoo in real life, but if so then that's another black mark against the casting and they really should have written it better, rather than giving no explanation whatsoever as to how and why a 15-year-old one day decided to go out and get a triangle tattooed on his back.Matt wasn't quite as bad as the trailer suggested: He was pretty obnoxious towards Spencer but Alf's talk did seem to have some sort of effect on him and he tried to apologise, he just happened to push all the wrong buttons.I can't say I felt sorry for him with that punch though.It looks like Spencer's household have been filled in on what happened; Sasha also seems to have found out off screen, given her and Spencer's brief conversation in the previous episode.Don't think you're thinking of Ric and Matilda, H&Alover: They did hit a rough patch around exam time but Ric had dropped out of school long before that and I don't recall her trying to push him into anything.Actually, you might be thinking of Ric and Cassie, I seem to remember her trying to push him into staying in school. Ric got booted out by Hyde, IIRC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Ranger 1 Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 ^He did, yes, I keep forgetting the details. I think there was talk of him coming back or going to another school? I can remember he ended up working at the school as a cleaner for a bit and Cassie was embarrassed by it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H&Alover Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 To add my bit to the Maddy/Evelyn debate. First off I haven't read any press, good or bad, about her or the actress. When Maddy first came to the bay I did like her, she and Spencer had had a rough time due to both their parents banning their relationship, which broke up in the end anyway. It just seems (to me anyway) that whereas Spencer seems to have matured Maddy hasn't, she does have her good moments, but then she slips back into her me-me mode and I hate her skipping about, yes she's young but that just makes her look like Skippy on speed. She does treat Roo very badly at times and yes I have mentioned this before but when Roo was in her coma Maddy promised she be a better person, get on with her school work, be a better 'daughter' to Roo etc, that didn't last long. She kept promising the same to Josh and OK she did champion and stand up for him when no-one else did, but he started to feel, rightly or wrongly, he was just a 'project' to her. The mock exam being a case in point, with her and Evie's help he passed with flying colours whereas she failed, for the first time in her life. Was she able to put that to one side for five minutes and congratulate her boyfriend, no it was about her helping him so much that she failed. No problem with her being a smart person, but even smart people have to fail sometimes, it keeps your feet on the ground. Evelyn can a pain at times, her advice to Oscar about keeping quite about Tamara's accident was wrong as was the fact she was happy about Zac taking the blame, but taking her out of the equation as regards Josh I think Josh would have finished with Maddy sooner or later, him hooking up with Evelyn just made it sooner. The fact she hasn't slept with anyone yet and Maddy has has nothing to do with it. It might just be me but wasn't Matt holding his nose after Spencer's punch, yet when we next saw him he had a spilt lip? I think Sasha was right to tell Matt, he was slightly surprised but didn't sneer or attempt to make fun of it. Leah's suggestion was out there and for someone like Spencer who is a private person, it would have been very hard for him to speak out in public. Both Chris and Irene gave him food for thought, Irene was right, Keith was well practised into fooling young lads, like Spencer, into thinking he was a fit young girl, even Chris was fooled, the police had already told him he'd done it before. On that point just whose photo did he use to draw Spencer into his trap, even it was a random models photo he's stolen her identity which is also a crime. Evelyn came up with the brilliant idea of using the PA system. Although it's a good first step, as has been suggested he'll probably have counselling. The clapping by the students may have seemed odd, but it seemed right. Chris dishes out good advice twice in one day!!! It also gave us an insight to the real Chris, him admitting he dumped girls in the past because he thought they were going to dump him! Whilst that was happening Zac was giving Matt good advice. At least he and Sasha made up before she went to the city. It won't hurt Denny trying uni, she already knows the practical side and like Sasha says if she gets the qualifications she can work anywhere. Leah was bound to be suspicious by the way both Zac and VJ were acting, Zac doing his best to avoid her and VJ just being VJ, her imagination was probably running riot. I think most of her anger was because it wasn't anything as bad as she thought it might have been. I thought Zac's answer that VJ would never trust him again was very reasonable and it was after the event, not as if VJ had sounded out Zac first then went ahead. He must have had it a few weeks as there was no redness. It appears they are showing two double episodes in Aus, so we are seeing the trailers for Friday and the following Monday, until their Christmas break, which makes it confusing for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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