harrietjames Posted January 27, 2018 Report Posted January 27, 2018 39 minutes ago, Red Ranger 1 said: True, but I think that's as much down to the person and the circumstances as it is the actual act involved.If Mick had gone to the gym and throttled Billie to death rather than raping her, I don't think VJ or Ash would ever have forgiven him for that either.Conversely, if John had raped Billie under the influence of a brain tumour, they may well have come to understand that he's a good person normally and wasn't himself at the time. John's crime was perceived as lesser than Mick's in part because of it's lack of violence. If John's brain tumour had caused him to violently murder Billie, they would have been less forgiving of John too. Billie suffered less from John's crime - she was dead and free from pain. Charlie suffered more from her rape than she did her murder too.
Red Ranger 1 Posted January 27, 2018 Report Posted January 27, 2018 46 minutes ago, harrietjames said: Billie suffered less from John's crime - she was dead and free from pain. Charlie suffered more from her rape than she did her murder too. Ignoring the fact that she'd have been dead by now anyway, Billie's death robbed her of the chance to grow old, to see her daughter grow up and to spend years married to the man she loved.Her rape didn't affect any of that.Next thing you'll be saying that Charlie's better off than Bianca because she's peacefully decomposing while Bianca remembers what happened to her.Do you think if you'd asked Charlie in the moment before her death if she'd rather have been shot dead eighteen years previous rather than being raped and having those extra years, she'd have said yes? For that matter, do you think she'd have chosen death and never seeing Ruby and Brax again in that moment over being raped again and living to tell the tale? If Mick had set fire to the surf club and Billie had died in the fire, I don't think anyone would have forgiven him for that more than they did raping her.Jade Montgomery planted a bomb in Bianca's briefcase in an attempt to murder her, leaving her with a brain injury, which doesn't seem any more or less violent than starting a bushfire near a crowd of people.I don't think anyone was quicker to forgive her for that than to forgive Dean for raping her.
atrus Posted January 27, 2018 Report Posted January 27, 2018 So I was hoping for an entire Gangmaster Grandma arc with Justin's garage customer, which would have been hilarious. But alas, the real miscreant is of course young and glamorous and is herself at the mercy of generic H&A hoons, so most of the interest in the plot seeped away pretty quickly. Still, I kind of found myself enjoying Willow - not so much as a rounded character, but in the sense that she had some amusing enough ping-pong dialogue going with Justin which was so outrageous that it more or less actually worked. The Mick storyline left me a little conflicted this week, in a good way. I still dislike Mick as a person and obviously for Luc's sake and everyone around her, I still want him dispatched to Western Australia as fast as possible. As @H&Alover said above, even putting aside the fact that he raped Luc's mother, it's impossible to imagine him coping at all well with the constant crying, or any aspect of parenthood - there is just simply no way he should have involvement in Luc's life. But as other posters have also said, I was feeling a little human sympathy for him nonetheless, which is always something H&A has always managed well with its more complex antagonists. Firstly, I feel like the way Alf, Irene etc are talking to him simply isn't helping their cause - every time someone tears strips off him, it just eggs Mick on in his (deluded) belief that he's the only righteous one in the entire scenario. I'm not saying that moderating their behaviour would necessarily stop Mick going for custody, but I actually do think it's possible - part of the reason he's feeling the need to do it is because he's getting such a sense of overwhelming hostility from all the people in Luc's life - which, being not of sound mind, he's struggling to understand. I understand from an emotional perspective why everyone is being belligerent with him - but I just think that the savvier, more pragmatic choice would be not to keep aggravating Mick. Talking to him with respect may not be something he particularly deserves, but I think it would help lessen the chances of things getting out of control. Case in point: Alf screams and yells at Mick for the umpteenth time, and his immediate reaction is to pick up the phone and tell the police about Ash kidnapping him. As viewers I don't think we were meant to be entirely clear on whether or not Mick would have hurt Ziggy - but he certainly seemed clear in his own mind that he had no intention of hurting her, and apart from him acting generally erratically he didn't actually attack her, or try to (in fact, it was Ziggy who attacked him). Of course, he should have just kept walking when she ran away and hid, but he was also in a state of desperation having run out of medication, and presumably just wanted someone to help. I'd have been interested to hear Ziggy's statement and the police response to it, but we joined the scene after it had already been given. Also, for people with his kind of condition, I felt like the medical community ought to have an emergency fallback for situations where pills get lost, which shouldn't rely on certain doctors being in town or whatever. I know he's done monstrous things but most of that has presumably been down to his psychological state, and if he's able to get himself into such distress as easily as he did this week, I really do feel like someone has fallen down in their duty of care to both him and the wider community, by allowing him to be roaming around society in the first place. And if he is allowed out and about, he really needs to be able to get medication in a crisis. So, what's going on with Ryder? It could be a diagnosable condition that's causing his sleep issues, but knowing H&A I suspect he's being haunted by some traumatic event or other - and nightmares would certainly explain why he seems to often leap down people's throats first thing in a morning. I liked him more this week; his friendship with Coco and Raffy seemed more genuine and less motivated by baser desires - although truth be told, I wasn't ever particularly sure that he's genuinely insatiable in that regard. I feel like he might have just been playing a bit of a role to make friends. I do feel like Roo ought to have spoken to him first before following John's advice and raiding his possessions, but glad things were resolved between them afterwards. The Glow Day event seemed to go down well, and I was pleased that we were exploring more nuances with the Jennifer character than we had previously. Her immediate reaction - clearly a defence mechanism - was to tease Coco, but we could see her heart wasn't in it and it will be interesting to see how things progress from here. The Olivia story continues to be tiresome in the extreme - as if the oily fashion exec would really give two hoots about her relationship with Hunter - although I must admit I quite enjoyed VJ and Hunter's drunken night out. Oh, and Ben is now Definitely Better Than Brad From Neighbours as far as I'm concerned, after he showed an unprecedented amount of empathy towards a struggling Diana. Although yes, @Red Ranger 1, I think it's wise not to assume we've seen the last of neanderthal Ben quite yet.
Razabaza Posted January 28, 2018 Report Posted January 28, 2018 I actually like Ben. He's not as sugary nice as the other people in the Bay. It's refreshing.
harrietjames Posted January 28, 2018 Report Posted January 28, 2018 @Red Ranger 1You are presuming you can get over rape trauma but it is permanent. US data but presume that rates would be similar - Rape victims are 13 times more likely than non-crime victims to have attempted suicide (Reference: Kilpatrick, D. (2000). The mental health impact of rape. Charleston, SC: Medical University of South Carolina. ) That's not just wishing they were dead that's wanting it enough to actually trying to make it happen.
Red Ranger 1 Posted January 28, 2018 Report Posted January 28, 2018 Yes, but murder victims are dead and that's even more permanent.At least rape victims have a choice.
Slade Posted January 28, 2018 Report Posted January 28, 2018 22 hours ago, christine king said: I legit hate Ben’s character but I recently met the guy who plays him in real life and he was such a nice guy, the actor is a good guy, I just don’t like the character he plays That reminds me a bit of Pat Phelan in Coronation St. As a character he's utterly repugnant IMO (even though I've come to quite like him as a bad guy) but having seen the actor in a couple of interviews he comes across as OK. Same goes for Emma Atkins who plays Charity Dingle in Emmerdale. But my point wasn't so much about the actors per se whilst I still think that can be applicable in this case. It was about the perception of an individual's attitude towards a fictional character and how it transposes into real life. It is my believe that when people often call people out they are not arguing in good faith anyway which is why I made the point that murder is far worse than rape. As from my experience here people are less likely to call out people who support murder than they are about someone who is unsympathetic to a victim of a sexual crime. So it was more about the inconsistency. The other analogy I can give (which is something else I've witnessed in this place over the years) is when someone gets annoyed if a poster criticises one of their favourite characters but the same poster is more than happy to stick the boot in if it's a character they don't like. I really enjoyed the way Leah hugged Hunter and VJ after finishing their exams and I also liked the way she and Roo didn't seem to mind them getting drunk. I do actually really like the friendship with those two. I still don't trust Axel one bit and am not sure what his angle is. Is not clear whether this all some elaborate attempt to seduce Olivia or is he simply trying exploit her for her designs. I often find Marilyn annoying as hell so even though she went to check on Kat when Kat was arguing with Robbo it still bothered me. I really don't know if Novak killed Murray but I'm more interested to know (and I'm sure we'll find this out next week) why he didn't just kill Kat then and there.
H&Alover Posted January 28, 2018 Report Posted January 28, 2018 23 hours ago, Red Ranger 1 said: Ignoring the fact that she'd have been dead by now anyway, Billie's death robbed her of the chance to grow old, to see her daughter grow up and to spend years married to the man she loved.Her rape didn't affect any of that.Next thing you'll be saying that Charlie's better off than Bianca because she's peacefully decomposing while Bianca remembers what happened to her.Do you think if you'd asked Charlie in the moment before her death if she'd rather have been shot dead eighteen years previous rather than being raped and having those extra years, she'd have said yes? For that matter, do you think she'd have chosen death and never seeing Ruby and Brax again in that moment over being raped again and living to tell the tale? If Mick had set fire to the surf club and Billie had died in the fire, I don't think anyone would have forgiven him for that more than they did raping her.Jade Montgomery planted a bomb in Bianca's briefcase in an attempt to murder her, leaving her with a brain injury, which doesn't seem any more or less violent than starting a bushfire near a crowd of people.I don't think anyone was quicker to forgive her for that than to forgive Dean for raping her. I'm not belittling their death in any way but I can see where harrietjames is coming from, for the murder victim it is over, their families of course will never get over it, but for rape survivors, a term as harrietjames said they prefer, it will always be there, it depends on how strong their character is and how they deal with the aftermath, many retreat from the world and like murder victims families they will always blame themselves for not being there to protect them. A lot may depend if the murderer or rapist is caught, for the rape survivor if they aren't and unknown, there will for ever be the fear they could come back. harrietjames made the comment about male rape, which to my mind at least, must in some ways be worse. Rape is something that happens to women the 'weaker' sex, so in their eyes makes them less of a man so more likely that they wouldn't report it for fear of (a) not being believed and (b) the shame. Same as men being knocked about by their wives/partners. So far, at least as far as I know Mick has shown no remorse or even acknowledged what he did Billie, John at least, once it had been proved he was responsible for the fires owned up to his actions. That can make a huge difference to whoever it was suffered. I guess it's testimony to how good the actors/actresses play their part, especially as a baddie, is we hate/love them. I've read Connor McIntyre is a very nice person in real life, it's just his character we hate. Viewers will always defend their favourite character in a soap and can't see why others don't like them, ditto ones they hate! Thank goodness we don't all like/hate the same character(s), it would make very boring. Some of us are even willing to feel some sympathy for Mick. Ben, who may not be the most calm, reasonable bloke does what he does because he loves his kids, better, methinks, in not giving a damn who they hang out with, that's why I like him. Both sides are guilty in the Mick versus the rest debate. Irene has tried the conciliatory approach, but he has it in his mind as her father he is entitled to go for custody. He is being ganged up on and as Red said he has been let down by whoever should be monitoring him after his release, it seems he has just been abandoned and left to his own devices. He's not that stable on his meds so why no back up as him seeing a counsellor? So pleased Hunter & VJ have finally finished their HSC, please God they pass. Thought it was a nice thing for VJ to do that after he chucked his books in the air, that he gathered them up to pass onto Coco. I can understand why VJ wanted to spend as much time as he could with Luc instead of celebrating with Hunter, but it was just one night when she would have been asleep anyway. Hunter needed to offload onto someone so who better than VJ his erstwhile step brother, he mentioned VJ had been there for him with all the trouble with Zac so just returning the favour by being there for him now. If you are going to have a blazing row don't do it with the balcony doors wide open, Maz was just being Maz and wanted to check up on Kat, not totally sure she should have told her about Robbo revealing to John he'd remembered something and her seeing him acting suspicious and him cutting his hand. I'm with you Slade, (yes really) about Axel, I don't trust him one bit, that's aside from him dressing like an extra from Miami Vice, he was very sneery about the fact Hunter had just finished school and did seem intent on keeping Olivia from joining Hunter to celebrate in which he succeeded. As for your thoughts as to why well. OK Murray couldn't very well park at the bottom of the stairs to the flat, but it did leave Novak a clear path to get in from the blind side. Kat didn't follow her own advice or Robbo's for that matter, she left the door unlocked. She was going to but got distracted by making her drink. I did wonder why Murray didn't take note that there was a strange car parked near the diner. I suppose the first time Robbo saw Kat making the cup of tea it didn't register he'd just seen her do that, but the second time he twigged. Btw just how far away is the surf club from the Diner, he did seem to running for quite a distance? Novak and Robbo are/were in the same business so would know how to re-jig surveillance cameras and place false text messages. Novak is a pro he wouldn't kill her in full view of people or her own place, it'd be somewhere quiet like the empty unit he took her to and of course he knows Robbo will soon follow.
H&Alover Posted January 28, 2018 Report Posted January 28, 2018 On 27/01/2018 at 14:57, Red Ranger 1 said: True, but I think that's as much down to the person and the circumstances as it is the actual act involved.If Mick had gone to the gym and throttled Billie to death rather than raping her, I don't think VJ or Ash would ever have forgiven him for that either.Conversely, if John had raped Billie under the influence of a brain tumour, they may well have come to understand that he's a good person normally and wasn't himself at the time. Naturally neither Ash or VJ would have forgiven Mick if he'd killed Billie, but the rape has resulted in Luc so another person and their future has been affected. I remember Billie & VJ talking how they would have explained it to her when she was older. Wise decision on their part rather than her finding out some other way.
Razabaza Posted January 28, 2018 Report Posted January 28, 2018 Obviously, nobody should ever have to go through an experience like rape, but some people don't really have long-lasting psychological effects. I was never raped, but I was sexually assaulted once back when I was 17 and it hasn't emotionally affected me at all. Maybe it's just because I'm a depressed, apathetic person in general, but after it happened I was just like "meh, no big deal" then carried on with my day. I don't think about it and I'm not haunted by it. In my opinion, being murdered would be worse, but everyone's different and it's subjective. On a side note, I've never liked Billie and I'm glad her character is gone. She was a pathological, selfish liar who had no problem trying to destroy Nate's career and VJ's life with all of her lies.
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