Political correctness

[flutterby]

out posted by Dan, my post is in reply to Jem's

^ yeh but as a Christian I would have an issue with that, they aren't bleeping the word God because God is a bad word, the phrase God damned is possibly one of the most blasphemous things a person could say and I hate it.

There's a fine line with a lot of these PC issues, for example recently at my college there was a Christmas card competition whereby anything 'explicitely Christian' was banned from the contest and I wrote in to complain because in trying to keep the contest result PC and not offend people from other faiths they offended Christians by pre-censoring Christian entries from appearing on a card to celebrate a Christian holiday.

[Formerly Known as FKAJ]

I read that Harry Potter article, and I get the impression that Shores didn't read the series very well:

*For a start, Voldemort means "Flight from death," ie, doing everything he can to avoid death, like killing people to make horcruxes.

* Sexual congress with goats?! WTF? The only thing close to that was mentioned in Goblet of Fire and Deathly Hallows!

* Comparing Voldemort to God? I hope that not all of these critics of Harry Potter conveniently ignore the fact that Voldemort is a serial killer whose no less of a sorcerer than anyone else.

* That crap about Tom Dick and Harry: Tom is named as part of the anagram with "I am Lord Voldemort", and there's no one important called Dick.

* It's Nicholas de Mimsy-Porpington, not Benedict de Mimpsy-Porkington.

* Tom being blurred: Yes, that's because he's not a complete human, he's like a hologram projected by the diary.

* The reference to Tom and Harry being alike - well, they are, in their circumstances growing up.

* Comparing to the diary to the bible? and Lucius Malfoy to the angel Gabriel??

* Harry talking to snakes: again, she conveniently forgets that so can Voldemort, which is why Harry can.

* Stem cell research?!! Dobby?! Am I missing something?

This is insane paranoia at it's worst.

[emmasi]

out posted by Dan, my post is in reply to Jem's

^ yeh but as a Christian I would have an issue with that, they aren't bleeping the word God because God is a bad word, the phrase God damned is possibly one of the most blasphemous things a person could say and I hate it.

There's a fine line with a lot of these PC issues, for example recently at my college there was a Christmas card competition whereby anything 'explicitely Christian' was banned from the contest and I wrote in to complain because in trying to keep the contest result PC and not offend people from other faiths they offended Christians by pre-censoring Christian entries from appearing on a card to celebrate a Christian holiday.

The UK is different to Australia though. We usually accept that it's just an expression, and if people are actually using it to speak out against religion, then it's their right to do so. It scares me that we're headed down a road of religious censorship. I don't want to have the songs "Losing My Religion" or "Like a Prayer" banned from TV and radio. I like those songs and respect them as creative expression. I also happen to think they're very moving in the right context, and I say that as a Christian (amongst other things). I don't want to be in a country where that sort of thing is banned, and where I and other people can't talk freely about religious or political beliefs. That's why I haven't bothered visiting America or Sudan.

Speaking of, a woman jailed for naming a teddy bear Muhammed? That's one of the sickest things I've ever heard. I don't want to be on the same track to someone being jailed here for naming a teddy bear God or Jesus.

[Jess]

^^ I get what you're saying, Jem, but I wish there was more equality. I don't know much about the situation in Australia, but in the UK there's very much double standards. A play was put on in a city near me a few years ago that depicted scenes of sexual immorality in a Sikh temple. The Sikhs complained, and it was removed. I'm not saying this shouldn't have happened, but then you get other things like Jerry Springer - The Opera, that was clearly offensive to Christians, and nothing was done about it, even when the matter was taken to the courts. We're a Christian country, y'know, it's weird. Aaaaand, don't even get me started on the fact that Stoke-on-Trent city council have renamed Christmas "Winterfest" for fear of offending other faiths. Yes, I know there's always talk of the fact that Christians nicked the holiday off the pagans, or whatever and, to be honest, I'm not fussed if Jesus was actually born on 25th December, or not. The fact is that what is now a religious festival is being dereligioned so as not to offend people who have moved, voluntarily, into this country - and all in the name of political correctness. Can you imagine the uproar if a load of us went to Pakistan and demanded that the Muslim festival of Id-Al-Fitr be renamed to include us? It's ridiculous.

And, as a side note, I think it's highly unlikely that we're gonna be jailed for calling a teddy bear Jesus, especially not when the word's in common usage as an expletive. But, no, seriously, the Muslims are quite strict on their representation of Mohammed (you have to say 'peace be upon him' after his name, for example), whereas Christians are, traditionally, not so - perhaps to our detriment.

[Formerly Known as FKAJ]

Forget what I said about the Harry Potter article before. I realise now it was a joke and the mistakes were deliberate. God, I'm slow on the uptake when it comes to hoaxes like this.

[flutterby]

^^ I get what you're saying, Jem, but I wish there was more equality. I don't know much about the situation in Australia, but in the UK there's very much double standards. A play was put on in a city near me a few years ago that depicted scenes of sexual immorality in a Sikh temple. The Sikhs complained, and it was removed. I'm not saying this shouldn't have happened, but then you get other things like Jerry Springer - The Opera, that was clearly offensive to Christians, and nothing was done about it, even when the matter was taken to the courts. We're a Christian country, y'know, it's weird. Aaaaand, don't even get me started on the fact that Stoke-on-Trent city council have renamed Christmas "Winterfest" for fear of offending other faiths. Yes, I know there's always talk of the fact that Christians nicked the holiday off the pagans, or whatever and, to be honest, I'm not fussed if Jesus was actually born on 25th December, or not. The fact is that what is now a religious festival is being dereligioned so as not to offend people who have moved, voluntarily, into this country - and all in the name of political correctness. Can you imagine the uproar if a load of us went to Pakistan and demanded that the Muslim festival of Id-Al-Fitr be renamed to include us? It's ridiculous.

And, as a side note, I think it's highly unlikely that we're gonna be jailed for calling a teddy bear Jesus, especially not when the word's in common usage as an expletive. But, no, seriously, the Muslims are quite strict on their representation of Mohammed (you have to say 'peace be upon him' after his name, for example), whereas Christians are, traditionally, not so - perhaps to our detriment.

^ Couldn't agree more Jess

Jem - I don't understand...and I know it is not your fault... but I don't get why God damned is accepted, if I were to say Muhammed damned there would be uproar.

I feel like in order to install 'equality and diversity' Britain on the whole has ended up crushing the religions and traditions that were here in the first place...and I'm sure it's the same in other countries. I am not racist nor do I condemn others for their faiths whether Ido or do not belive the same as them but I don't think it's fair that people of other faiths have suceeded in many instances to remove christianity from christian holidays. I wouldn't dream of saying to a Jew or a Hindu that their celebration of Hannukah or Divali offend me and that they should be renamed or altered, therefore why is it fair for talk of Christmas becoming Holidaymas and people saying Happy Holidays or Seasons Greetings. The latter really grates on me, we aren't celebrating the season, if we were why shouldn't we say Seasons Greetings at Spring or in Summer? they, in my opinion are worth more celebrating than Winter!

I could go on all night so I will stop myself there!

[Ryan]

I also think people that are choosing to be offended need to stop being ignorant. We've got a few minorities that seem to be constantly offended. We've got women's groups who seem to think that they should be equal to men in everything and then demand sole-sex entry into others.

I'll go on the record now that I was trapped into a burning building, I'd prefer a man rescusing me than a woman. That's a general statement, because they are some butch woman and sime wimpy men. On the other hand, women generally seem to make better carers than men. Every now again you hear of women campaigning to get into men only clubs. OK, there are some positions that should be open to all sexes, but men should be allowed a place of their own where they go themselves.

Another generalisation I will give is that if I were an inner city and there was a group of black youths I'd try and avoid them. Some might constrew that as racist, but based on what you hear, even from a minority of reports, I wouldn't want to take chances.

Earlier this year when those Muslim terrorists tried to blow up Glasgow Airport I went on about what a ****hole I thought Glasgow was. OK, it's not a postive view of the city, but it doesn't take away from the fact that it is my view.

We can debate whether Glasgow is a nice city or not until the neds come home, but I think people can choose to be offended by stuff as a simple way of winning an argument. I'll say I'm offended, he'll retract his statement and we'll all go on pretending the world's a lovely place.

[Nathan]

Yes, it has.

[emmasi]

I felt like writing a theological essay. Brace yourselves...

Jem - I don't understand...and I know it is not your fault... but I don't get why God damned is accepted, if I were to say Muhammed damned there would be uproar.

I think you should be able to say both. In my opinion, it's all about intent. I believe in God, but I don't get offended at all by people saying God damned, because their complaint rarely has anything to do with God. For a start, it's used as an adjective to describe something as being damned by God because it's bad, not to damn God himself. And anyway, it's not usually meant to be taken literally. It's like calling someone a cow. If I say "she's a cow," I'm not saying that she is ACTUALLY a four-legged bovine creature. I quite like cows, and it would make no sense for me compare someone I don't like to something I do like. The intent is purely to say that I don't like HER. I've got nothing against cows, but because she might, then I use it to offend her. And even if she likes cows as well, she'll know that my INTENT is to offend, and will therefore take offense to what I've said. It makes no sense to take these phrases literally, because it's just a figure of speech.

"God damned" is not actually meant to be offensive to God at all. It's just a technical offense based on that commandment about not using the Lord's name in vain. But what is in vain? “Empty of substance: devoid of substance or meaning.” Meaning is in the eye of the beholder. If I say “God damn it!” I don’t mean for God to actually damn something, but I do mean that I’m angry and frustrated, and if God hears that, then perhaps he’ll do something about it, or at least calm me down. I talk to God whenever I want, whatever mood I’m in. I don’t get down on my knees to pray and I refuse to go to church because I believe that God is everywhere and with me wherever I go and whatever I’m doing. Whether I’m asking for guidance on an important decision, or whether I’m in need of patience and endurance because I’ve just given myself a nasty paper cut… God hears my words and knows the intent of them. When I say “God damned,” he knows that I’m not mocking him or what I believe he stands for, he knows that I’m just upset about something and I need to vent to him about it. I will never believe that God, who knows me and knows my heart, will take offense to anything I say in the heat of the moment, because he knows I don’t mean it. And even if I do mean it - and there have been plenty of times when I HAVE damned God - he knows that I’ll come around in my own time, in his own time, when it’s time for me to understand something that I couldn’t before.

Human beings were not made to be perfect, and I personally don’t think that God is prefect either. If he didn’t know how to make mistakes, then how could he know how to help us when we make ours? How do you explain natural selection, the eradication of species that don’t work, if God himself wasn’t acknowledging hat he could make better, more successful animals than the ones he’s already got? Why create Lucifer at all if he was only ever meant to rebel and try and overthrow Heaven...?

I always say that if God can do anything, then why can’t he change his mind? If God was writing the Bible today, I don’t think he’d be so strict and severe about it all. The world is different now. We have science instead of miracles, we understand how the world works and we don’t have to rely on faith. We have knowledge instead. And with that knowledge, we don’t have to be afraid of what we don’t understand, because we know there’s an explanation out there if we just look for it. As such, I think that God would know that he can’t rely on ignorance and fear to command us, he’d rely on mutual respect and love so that when he had something important to tell us - not a pet peeve regarding his name - we might actually take the time to listen. He gave us free will so we could choose to follow him, not so he could control us and dictate our every thought and deed.

As I understand it, God isn’t even God’s name, “god” is the generic term given to any deity. Christians just happen to believe that there is only the one, so they don’t bother naming him anything else (although I’ve heard him referred to as Yahweh and Jahova). So when you say “God damn” you could, in theory, be addressing any god of your choosing, not just the Christian one. I could be angry at a lover and call on Aphrodite to damn him; I could be annoyed at the surf conditions, and be complaining to Huey; I could be disgusted by the laws of Christians and think that Allah should damn them all. It’s all relative, really. And so I go back to my original argument: I don’t think there’s any point taking offense to something if you know is not intended to cause offense.

To illustrate...

I was watching a late night Christian infomercial, and they were tying to tell me that words can carry evil. They referred to a case where someone had wished someone else good luck in a theatrical performance by saying “break a leg.” That person was trying to be nice and supportive, but what was the response? They were scolded, laughed at and ridiculed for “not knowing any better” than to use such a “negative” phrase… That made me so angry. Here this guy was thinking he was doing the right thing, and a group of people with their own strict beliefs on what you were and weren’t allowed to say turned around and condemned him for being “ignorant” of the “truth.” That included the fact that luck doesn’t exist, it’s all determined by the grace of God… ok, that’s great, but all he was trying to do was be supportive! Was it really necessary to tear him down because you chose to take offense to something that had absolutely no intention of offense?

I suppose that’s the whole cause of this reaction to Political Correctness - hatred and agression sparked by offenses that no one wants to concede are unintentional. If I call someone black, it can’t be that I’m distinguishing their physical appearance by the colour of their skin, it MUST be that I’m determining their entire character as a human being based on what I observe of them from the outside… I’m not, I’m just saying what I see. If they were white, I'd call them white. To me it's a hell of a lot less offensive to call someone black than to automatically assume they have African herritage (in the case of "African Americans") BECAUSE they're black. If you're going to be like that, then we ALL have African heritage... Cradle of Civilization and all that. Or maybe even Aboriginal. (History is sketchy on which came first, I think.) Even if it's only a few hundred years removed, I still don't see how a person could prefer to be described on sight as being from a country they've never set foot in, rather than being the colour that they happen to be. If I said they had black hair too, would that be offensive? Or if I observed their hair was blonde, would I automatically be calling them stupid, because some people choose to associate blondness with stupidity? I hope not, but the potential for offense is always there if people are insecure enough to take it.

I feel like in order to install 'equality and diversity' Britain on the whole has ended up crushing the religions and traditions that were here in the first place...and I'm sure it's the same in other countries. I am not racist nor do I condemn others for their faiths whether Ido or do not belive the same as them but I don't think it's fair that people of other faiths have suceeded in many instances to remove christianity from christian holidays. I wouldn't dream of saying to a Jew or a Hindu that their celebration of Hannukah or Divali offend me and that they should be renamed or altered, therefore why is it fair for talk of Christmas becoming Holidaymas and people saying Happy Holidays or Seasons Greetings. The latter really grates on me, we aren't celebrating the season, if we were why shouldn't we say Seasons Greetings at Spring or in Summer? they, in my opinion are worth more celebrating than Winter!

Christmas is Christmas, and it is stupid to want to change that. The holiday, in the Christian faith, is to celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ, whether he was actually born on that day or not. It should not be changed. However, I don’t think there is anything wrong with saying “Happy Holidays,” or “Season’s Greetings.” I have several non-Christian friends. I give them presents at Christmas because I want them to know that, on a day when I’m remembering my savior, I’m remembering them as well, because they’ve saved me a lot of times too. But I respect their choice not to believe in Jesus, so when I give them their presents, I don’t say “Merry Christmas,” because I know they’re not celebrating that. Instead I say “Happy Winter Solstice,” (even though it’s Summer here ) because that is the celebration from their faith that traditionally coincides with mine. To people on the street, I will say Merry Christmas if that’s what they say to me, but if they say “Happy Holidays,” I’ll say that, because it’s not my place to assume that they’re celebrating the same holiday that I am.

It’s possible for people who don’t believe in God or Jesus to celebrate the spirit of Christmas (peace and love) without literally saying that they believe that Jesus was born in a manger 2000ish years ago. I've learned not to hold the semantics of "CHIRST-mas" against them (but only recently, I admit). For them, it's not about having an exclusive, member's only birthday party, it's about enioying the message of hope, togetherness, and salvation, even if they don't technically believe that that message comes from Jesus himself. Heck, people who are calling this year 2008AD (After Death - of Christ) don’t have to be Christian, do they? No, it’s just a common idea that has been adopted by everyone, like Christmas. My friend told me the other day that it was originally a celebration of the tree, which is why we bring a tree inside the house and dress it up. I suppose you might as well say “Happy Tree Day” if you wanted to keep the holiday completely neutral… but would people with plastic Tree Day trees feel left out for not having a real one to celebrate? Who knows.

Maybe we should just call it X-mas like on Futurama and move on.

[Cal]

I'm not religious, nor do I believe in god. I'm a 're-incarnation' and 'life on other planets' type of person. But I do observe the conflicts in religion and I think it's cool that every religion believes differently and celebrates different things. Now, I think it's awful that conflict arises over religion, but I can't stop that so I don't fret too much about it.

I say "Jesus Christ!" and "God Dammit!" - but no disrespect is intended, it's just a figure of speech. *Insert example from Jem's post in here *