Dangerous Dogs

[Lesley Bee]

^ That is so sad, it just goes to show that when you just never know the moment No matter how loving a dog seems, it can just suddenly turn without any warning. Its funny how it always seems to be pit bulls though.

My heart goes out to his family

[valli]

I feel so sorry for the families that have lost a child because either that family or some relative have a dangerous dog

I remember being afraid of dogs because a dog attacked me when I was about 7 or 8 years old. Nothing serious, he just barked and ran around me before he put his mouth around my leg, but I'm not quite sure what he did though And this was a small dog who looks like a sausage with legs ( ) and not a dog you would expect to attack. My sister have been bitten too, but she trusts all dogs today. That I believe is being naive. Everyone can snapp and bite, even humans (don't ask! ) I feel insecure around dogs I don't know and dogs that I actually do know. So animals have to be respected in a way they deserve and I actually watched something that was very interesting yesterday:

In a program about animals they warned parents about kids with dogs. Looking at the dog and smiling is actually a dangerous thing to do! When you smile the dog thinks you are challenging it and will therefore feel threaten by you, and when you come closer it will think you are going to attack and defend itself! So I don't trust dogs, I still like them, but I'm keeping an eye on them, just in case. Better safe than sorry!

[carmelle]

I heard about that one year old on the news today and thought to myself "Not again"

It goes to show you can never know what will happen.

The saddest thing is that when it happened he was in the arms of his 7 year old aunt. The oldest person in the house at the time was 16 years old.

They were all kids. I really feel for all of them.

[emmasi]

This is not a popular opinion, but I am so sick of people blaming dogs for their own ignorance is laziness. ALL BREEDS OF DOGS ARE POTENTIALLY DANGEROUS! A Rottwieler does not kill because it's a Rottweiler, a Rottweiler kills because it's a massive animal with huge jaws, and any bite on a small child is likely to be lethal. It doesn't have to be intentional. Something as simple as a warning snap can equal death, or an animal trying to play. BABIES DIE BECAUSE THEY ARE FRAGILE! How many stories do you hear about a Jack Russel killing a 40 year old man? Very rarely, if ever. Does that mean that Jack Russels are therefore a better behaved breed of dog, and they have more right to live because of it? No it bloody well does not. If you have children, you should not have dogs that are big enough to hurt them! It's f***ing logic! I'm sick of people wanting the prettiest, "coolest" most impressive dog, and then one day thinking that's not enough for them, they'd rather have the vanity of having a little version of themselves running about because that's so much more satisfying. Then what happens to the dog? The dog can't say, "hey, pay attention to me." The dog doesn't get to slap it's new little brother or sister with a toy and say "I don't like the baby! Mummy and daddy don't love me as much anymore" and get away with it like a human child. The dog, if the attack IS intentional, sees something small and weak getting preference where it shouldn't - pack mentality dictates that the weaker animal is submissive, unless it's the leader. The parents are the leaders, so the weaker animal, in this case the child, should be submissive. But children are not like that - they think that everything is theirs to grab and poke and scream at - so when they try that with a dog who thinks it's being insubordinate, the reaction of the dog is to put that child in it's place - the bottom of the pack - and it can't do that with gentle smacks on the hand and "no, don't do that," it does it with it's weight but pushing the kid down, and with it's teeth by snapping at the child to make sure it knows that the dog is dominant.

THIS IS NOT EVIL, UNUSUAL BEHAVIOUR! THIS IS NORMAL ANIMAL INSTINCT. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BREED!!!

Pit bulls, staffies, and the like are more dangerous because they have lock-jaw, which means that once they bite down on something and their jaw locks, they can't let go even if they wanted to. So think about this, you're a dog, you've snapped at a lower ranking animal, your jaw has locked... what do you do? Do you stand there all day listening to something screaming in your ear, or do you pull away? Well, I for one would pull away. And with a child's skin being so soft, that kind of action does enormous damage whether it's intentional or not.

DOGS ARE NOT THE TOOLS OF SATAN! THEY ARE FLESH AND BLOOD ANIMALS WITH INSTINCTIVELY DEFINED CONCEPTS OF SOCIAL STRUCTURE, VARYING PERSONALITIES WHICH ARE AS MUCH DETERMINED BY RACE AS HUMAN BEINGS, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, THEY HAVE THE ABILITY TO MAKE MISTAKES.

As much as I love dogs, I don't pretend that they have all the mental capabilities of humans. They don't understand our language, they don't understand that "this is the baby, you're not allowed to be rough with it." They don't understand that if you run at a child and jump up on it, it will probably be knocked down and cry. What they'll understand - after the fact - is that they will get in trouble if they do that again. Unfortunately, dogs don't have the luxury of a second chance. If an animal is even suspected of being dangerous, it's put down. There is no doggie jail, there is only the needle. Even dogs who have done NOTHING wrong meet this fate, because their owner gets bored of them, they're not pretty enough, they bark too much, etc... Human beings have a lot to answer for when it comes to the treatment of dogs, not least of which is the popular villainisation and eventual genocide of certain races, just because - after we've created them for our own disgusting purposes of "sport" (pit bulls get their name from being bred to kill each other in pits, so that humans can bet on them for fun...) - they've suddenly become inconvenient. And as we all know, if something is no longer convenient for human beings, it no longer has a right to exist.

Imagine if every human that punched someone in a fight was instantly put down - killed - because they were deemed to be too dangerous to live in society. Now imagine if several humans of the same race were put down for the same reason, and people began to talk of banning that race from breeding, or from migrating to certain countries, or better yet, killing every person of that race just in case they become aggressive in the future - even if the individuals have never done anything wrong in their lives. Would you call that fair? I wouldn't. I'd call it wrong, appalling, cruel, and disgusting.

I wonder how many news reports there'll be next year of animals being abused, neglected, and pointlessly killed by humans, and if any human found doing that will be put down for it? Oh that's right, no one cares about animals. Those people will probably get a slap on the wrist, and sent back into the world to kill again. Just as long as the dogs are put down, we'll all be safe

[rennyren]

I AGREE! Well said, I give you a standing ovation!

I should also add an argument supplied to me by my vet student housemate ... dogs, especially those that still have a lot of wolf in them (big dogs, generally) have a biological impulse to protect their pack. Our dog does it ... one of our housemates moved in about 3 months after the rest of us, and whenever we're play fighting our dog naturally attacks him (which is hilarious, because he's the only boy in the house, and he's usually just cowering whilst we hit him ... and our baby's well trained not to inflict any damage). When this new weird-looking hairless thing is introduced, like Emmasi said, it threatens their territory. Babies should be introduced gradually into a dog's life, and the dog should be given as much attention as it ever was. If you're not ready to do that, give the dog away to someone who is (don't abandon it on the side of the road or I'll personally visit you and open a can of whoop-ass).

To add to that, when the baby cries it is seen as a threat to the pack, and the dog will instinctively try to stop the noise. You should NEVER, EVER leave a dog in a room alone with a child. And the dog doesn't understand that children can't play rough, again like Emmasi said. If you've got, say, a pit bull, and your idea of playing with it is giving it a good wrestle, then it will naturally expect that all these weird two legged alpha dogs will wrestle in play. It's what dogs do. Like the RSPCA suggests, it's the owners of the dogs that need to be liscenced, not the dogs themselves.

It absolutely breaks my heart when I hear about animals being destroyed. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we should let them roam free and eat our babies, that would just be sick, but it is NOT THEIR FAULT! It's biologically programmed into them! Again, using our dog as an example: - she's kelpie/blue heeler/boarder collie, only spends about 2 to 3 months a year on a farm and the rest of the time in the suburbs, and she spends half her time herding. If we take her out to play ball, she'll fetch the ball, round us up, lead us to where she wants us and THEN drop the ball. It's biologically programmed into her as she's been bred for that purpose. Certain dogs ... pit bulls, boxers, bull mastiffs etc ... were bred to fight. They were bred specifically to be AGRESSIVE! It's like back in feudal times where taxes etc would punish the peasants, and then they would be arrested and shipped off for stealing because they had no money to feed their family. If you're going to own any dog, then you need to take the responsibility to train it.

With all due respect Valli, and I understand what a traumatic experience a dog attack can be ... I know it's happened to me a few times ... you shouldn't be afraid of dogs, because it's the fear they respond to. As long as you assert your status as the alpha creature - these days not too hard as long as the dogs been well trained ... our dog (who's a medium sized dog) submits to chihuahuas ... then they won't hurt you. It kills me to see children that are too afraid to approach dogs, even when they are with their owners. And the dogs, as I've said, don't deserve it at all. But I think I've ranted for long enough.

[emmasi]

I'm an extremely anxious person. I am generally terrified of people, because I never know what to do with them or what they're going to do to me. And if I go to the worst possible scenario in my mind - if they try to hurt me, or even kill me - then I'm never confident in my right or ability to defend myself. They could have a gun or a knife, or a syringe full of god knows what... humans are just so unpredictable and inventive in their methods of attack that it's impossible to prepare an adequate defense. And then, if you do manage to defend yourself, there are questions. You don't kill a human being and get away with it, no matter how they threaten you. In the worst possible scenario, I could kill a human being for trying to hurt me, and then be locked up for it for the rest of my life...

What does this have to do with dogs, I hear you ask. My point is simply this: when it comes down to it, you can fight a dog off to the death and no one will hold you accountable for it. The only person who will care about the dog is it's owner, and the law will be on your side against them. Therefore, if a dog attacks you, you are always in the right to defend yourself. If a dog attacks you, it will only ever bite and scratch - it has no more sinister weapons than that. If you can deflect the attack with a bag or a stick or even your forearm, you'll more than likely save your life. It's very rare that an adult is killed by a dog, unless it's been specifically trained to kill, because dogs just aren't designed to attack animals as large as we are by themselves. In the wild, canines hunt in packs that bring prey down as a team. In that respect, it would be wise to avoid dogs that are traveling in packs, even if there's only two of them, because it's a lot harder to fight off two dogs than one... In a one on one fight though, I'd be pretty sure of my life against any breed.

That all sounds pretty scary I'm sure, but as I said, this is the worst case scenario. I've spent some time at an RSPCA shelter and there have only been a few dogs out of hundreds that I've been scared of getting bitten by. Even then, most dogs are only warning you to stay away from them because they're scared of YOU. You're bigger than they are, and they might have been abused by humans before. If a dog has it's ears down or back, it's teeth bared, its tail between it's legs, if it's growling or snapping or backing away from you... don't try to pat it. It's scared and unsure and it's probably thinking that the best defense is a good offense. If you do still want to pat it (and I would not recommend this at all if the dog is aggressively warning you off), crouch down to it's level, don't look it in the eye, and wait for it to come to you. Don't make any sudden movements or noises. Just be calm and patient. It'll either see that you're not a threat and come over to check you out, or it will lose interest in you and leave.

And no matter how scared you are, don't run. Especially from sheep and cattle dog breeds like Kelpies and Border Collies. Their natural instinct is to chase and round you up, and they do that by snapping at you to make you run in the direction they want. The best thing to do is to ignore them and even stand still until they lose interest. And dogs are very territorial and protective - if you come near their house, they'll bark, bite, and chase after you to keep you away from their territory and their pack.

It seems like a lot of rules, but if people want to have dogs around at all then they should be prepared to understand them, and to teach other people how to understand them. Dogs are so much easier to understand and predict than humans. I know which I'm more afraid of

[Guevara01]

I completely agree with emmasi and rennyren. Why can't owners take any responsibility?

[rennyren]

Because humans are obviously the only race that matters.

Actually, I believe that it stems from the Catholic (I think) teachings that animals don't have souls, and thus their lives aren't sacred like the lives of humans. Thus, they are destroyed for their "crimes".

[I love music]

These are the some of the reasons we need to protect kids from vicious dogs:

But while deaths by dangerous dogs are extremely rare, serious attacks, which can leave victims - often children - scarred for life, are occurring on an almost monthly basis.

In October this year a six-year-old suffered serious face and arm injuries when he was attacked by a pit bull terrier in Winson Green, Birmingham

Just days later a 12-year-old boy was taken to hospital after having "chunks of flesh" torn from his arm when he was attacked by a Staffordshire bull terrier in Gateshead

In the same town six weeks earlier, an 11-year-old girl was taken to hospital with facial injuries after she was attacked by a bull mastiff

In August, six-year-old Sophia Kimpton, from London, needed plastic surgery for 17 injuries to her head, arms and back after an attack by two rottweilers while on holiday in Northern Ireland

In December last year a man in a wheelchair suffered serious injuries after a mauling by a pit bull-type dog in Cheltenham, Gloucestershire. The dog was destroyed after tests proved it was an illegal breed

In September 2006, 12-year-old Kerry Neary from Birmingham, needed 30 stitches when a rottweiler bit her right arm while she was playing in a park - the same month

The Princess Royal became the first British royal to have a criminal record when her English bull terrier, Dotty, bit two children in Windsor Great Park.

Source: BBC News website 29 Dec 07

I agree you have a very valid point about irresponsible dog owners BUT I stand by what I said in my original post "Vets and dog experts have said over and over that the likes of mongrels, spaniels and labradors make the best pets".

Rottweillers were bred in Germany to be guard dogs. Pit bulls are bred to be aggressive. To my mind, certain breeds of dog don't make family pets at all and therefore it is irresponsible to own one in the first place. I'm not a dog hater - in fact, I'm very biased towards cross-breed labradors and would argue they are the most intelligent, brilliant dogs ever and FANTASTIC with kids (our family had a cross-breed labrador and he was lovely) - oh, and my friend has a yorkshire terrier, who is the daftest dog ever, so I love yorkshire terriers - but I would like to see much tougher laws introduced.

At the end of the day one child is more important than ten thousand dogs.

[emmasi]

I don't agree with that last line at all, but I'm not going to try and change your mind on that.

As I said, nearly all the breeds you mentioned have lock jaw - I think if it's possible, that aspect should be bred out. It's of no benefit to the dog at all, and it was only ever bred into the dogs for maximum damage in fights. It's as cruel to them as it is to their victims. I just don't think that the breeds themselves should cop a bad rap for something they can't help. It does have a lot to do with how they're trained, how they're treated by humans and other dogs early in life, and what their own personality is. Any dog of any breed has the potential to be aggressive and dangerous. Some of them, like humans, are just bad tempered jerks. That doesn't mean that every dog of that breed is awful and should be destroyed.

I've never been lucky enough to own a dog myself, but I have a friend who owns four staffies. They are aggressive towards each other and get into fights, but despite that, they're not aggressive to humans. They bark and snarl at the fence if you come near the house and they don't know if you should be there, but that's what they're supposed to do, and if you were stupid enough to go near them with that clear a warning, I'd say you deserve to get bitten. But as far as I know, only one of the dogs has ever bitten a person, and that was an accident. The owner was breaking up a fight between the dogs and got bitten on the arm. They're probably the most aggressive dogs I know, and yet they're forever interacting with strangers and children with no problems - just as long as the owners are there, and the dogs know that there's no threat. One of them is getting a bit snappy as she gets older, but she's not a bad dog. She's just old and her mind comes and goes. Plus she can hardly see. I think her teeth would be likely to fall out if she ever actually bit anyone though...

Another friend of mine has a staffie-boxer cross. He is not a friendly dog, but he's not aggressive towards humans either. Mostly he just glares at you, which is unsettling, but not actually dangerous. He's just a grumpy old man. Even when he was younger, he was a grumpy old man... Again, he'll bark at people who come to the house, but it's not like he'll attack someone for the hell of it. He's very well trained, and so was his brother who was the friendliest dog you'd ever hope to meet. Same breed, same genes, same litter, and yet two completely different personalities. The friendly dog never bit anyone as far as I know, and the not so friendly one only ever attacked when someone threatened my friend with a knife. If it wasn't for him, my friend might be dead right now, so I find it hard to dismiss the potential aggression of dogs as a purely bad thing. Our ancestors didn't domesticate them because they were nice to look at and fun to throw sticks to, they did it because dogs were intelligent hunters and loyal protectors. It's unfair to get mad at them now when they fall back on the basic instincts we first employed them for. Luckily my friend's dog wasn't put down for biting, because even the police recognised that he was only defending my friend. He was very lucky.

As for Rottweillers. Well, one of the nicest dogs I've ever known was a Rottweiller. She used to let small kids ride around on her back! Not even kids from her own family, just random neighbourhood kids. She was one of those dogs that was allowed to wander free because everyone knew her and knew she wasn't a threat to anyone. Because of her, Rottweillers are one of my favourite breeds. Another town dog was my absolute favourite, a German Shepherd. They're supposed to be dangerous and aggressive too, but he wasn't. He was just a gorgeous dog who was always waiting for me when I got off the bus. He let me train him to sit and stay using milk bottle lollies from the shop. He even let me put my school jumper on him once, lol. I don't think he liked that much... but he never did anything about it . Remember, he was NOT my dog, he was just that good-natured that he had absolutely no intention of harming anyone.

Those were dogs I've known personally, but even dogs I've met in passing, I can't say that Rottweillers strike me as an inherently dangerous breed. Obviously a big dog like that and a bad attitude don't mix, but I don't think I've struck one with a bad attitude... I met one once at a dog show. The worst he did was drool on me... I met one at the pound who had been so badly neglected that he had no fur on his tail or back because he'd chewed it off due to an irritation that no one bothered to have treated... even after that, he wasn't aggressive towards people. He did get aggressive towards a staffie, but the staffie was p*ssing EVERYONE off (particularly me ), so I don't blame him for that. I was actually holding on to the leash while they were trying to attack each other through the cage. I would have been scared if I didn't know that the dogs had no interest in me. So I just stood there, holding onto the leash, and let them bark 'til my friend came to move the Rottweiller along (I'm not good at controlling dogs... I'm just good at not freaking out about them). By that stage, all the dogs were barking - not just the "dangerous" ones - the Labradors, the 6 week old puppies, the cattle dogs... everyone! All because of that bloody Staffie . Okay, so some dogs are better off out of the picture, but it should be based on personality, not breed, because one of the nicest dogs I met at the pound was a male Staffie who hadn't even been desexed (dogs are generally more aggressive and uncontrollable with hormones, as are most animals, including teenagers...). I don't even like Staffies, but I would have gladly smuggled him home under my jacket...

Back to the Rottweillers. The only time I've been concerned about one biting me was when I was trying to get close to one that was terrified. At the pound, you have to try to give the dogs human interaction, even if they're too scared to take it. It broke my heart to see him, this massive dog, so scared of me that he was squashing himself into a corner to get away from me... He was growling a bit to warn me off, and when I tried to touch him, he snapped at my hand, but I must emphasise that it was only a snap, not an actual bite. He made no attempt to bite me, he was just snapping in the air to let me know that he could bite me if I got any closer. He didn't want to hurt me anymore than I wanted to hurt him, he was just so scared of what I might do to him. Eventually, after sitting with him for a while, I got him to eat out of my hand. But he still didn't want me to actually touch him. When I tried to pat him, he darted back to his corner to get away from me. It breaks my heart to think that that dog, who clearly had a beautiful personality, was probably put down because he was too scared to interact with people, and therefore wouldn't be able to be adopted.

The only dogs I actually worry about are the ones that are small enough for me to step on. Some of them can be right little bastards, and to be honest, the only dog that ever bit me was about the size of a rat... The thing is, I overreacted and kicked it pretty hard... it didn't come near me after that... but I felt really bad. Now I get nervous around small dogs because IF they try to bite me, I'm not sure what to do about it. I don't want to hurt the dog, but I don't want it to hurt me either, so I worry that I can't defend myself appropriately, and so then I worry that I won't be able to defend myself at all... I'm pretty sure that's the same reason I don't like children...

Anyway, that was my life story. I hope you all enjoyed it