Buffy the Vampire Slayer

[Danifan]

I absolutely loved Buffy and Angel as a couple but a part of me couldn't help but be disappointed that nothing ever happened between Xander and Buffy. But Buffy and Angel were mean't to be together.

[emmasi]

What are the odds that "I Only Have Eyes For You" would be on Fox this morning? I forgot that one of the reasons I like it so much is that David Boreanaz is having to act like he's in love with a guy named James, and you just know that James Marsters is hanging around near by with his heart all aflutter

I love the Angelus/Dru/Spike scenes... Angelus saying that Spike and Dru could use an extra pair of hands............

[Natasha]

Buffy was my fave show (after the X-Files)

Favourite Season: Season 1-3

Least Favourite Season:Season 4

Favourite Character: Giles, Spike, Tara,Joyce,Faith,Willow

Least favourite character: Kennedy,Riley-I hated him sooo much, Buffy , Anya, Xander, Oz,Dawn.

Favourite moment: Spike/Joyce moments, Giles saying he liked mushy peas, Buffy learning her mother did the deed with Giles in Earshot, (not once, but twice), Buffy dying the second time, VampireWillow, Giles turning into a monster and only Spike can understand him, the adults turning into kids in Band Candy-and many more.

Least favourite moment: Giles leaving, Tara getting killed, Dawn appearing out of nowhere, and heaps more.

[claire_louise]

I absolutely loved Buffy and Angel as a couple but a part of me couldn't help but be disappointed that nothing ever happened between Xander and Buffy. But Buffy and Angel were mean't to be together.

Maybe it was because I didn't watch from the beginning (although I have seen nearly all the eps), but I always preferred Buffy/Spike to Buffy/Angel.

[freakybuffy]

Now at first i alway thought that Buffy/Angel were ment to be together, it was only from about season 6 that i preferred Buffy with Spike!

[Danifan]

Towards the end i did like Buffy/Spike but Buffy/Angel were always No.1 with me. Buffy/Spike were kind of my back up favourite couple.

Where did Dawn come from, was it ever explained. I watched a series or two then missed a bit and suddenly the mother was dead and Buffy had acquired a little sister from somewhere. I just don't ever remember her being mentioned.

[rockagirl]

Dawn was the key.

Okay, how can you people say you actually like Spike with Buffy??? Yes they look cute and hot together and blah blah blah but Spike was a total wimp with her! He was this rough, bad boy character in the beginning and his relationship with Dru was brilliant! They wore just so evil together but you could always see that he loved her. But then all of the sudden they had to destroy his character with this brick in his head. Yes it was fun at first but the soft Spike you all seem to love ain't Spike at all!

Face it people

I think this is the first time i agree with you Danifan but yes Angel and Buffy wore much better than Spike and Buffy.

[claire_louise]

Where did Dawn come from, was it ever explained. I watched a series or two then missed a bit and suddenly the mother was dead and Buffy had acquired a little sister from somewhere. I just don't ever remember her being mentioned.

As rockagirl said, Dawn was the key. The group who were looking after the key (I can't remember their name) turned it into a human and sent it to Buffy in the form of a sister, because they thought that was the best way to protect it from Glory. They gave Buffy and all her friends and family false memories so that they thought she'd been there all along - which is why they never explained where she'd come from or why, and why she was never mentioned before. Joyce (Buffy's mum) died of some sort of anuerysm after having a brain tumour removed.

[rennyren]

Awesome, Buffy fans, just what I need. I mean, I'm a HUGE Buffy fan too, but that's not important right now.

ANYWAY, so, I have a chance to write this paper for a conference in Istanbul on the affect of Joss Whedon on "quality" television these days, and any ideas you guys can think about, I would LOVE. I mean like, LOVE LOVE. I'd be heaping praise on you FOREVER!

So, here's the basic question I've chosen...

C) Perverse Sexuality: "He is evil but you should see him naked"

If quality television can be defined by its adult content, and if

adult content equals sex then how adult is the Whedonverse? How are

alternative sexualities represented? Does the subtext rapidly become

the text in the Whedonverse? How does the Whedonverse compare to other

quality television universes in terms of representing sexuality?

Textual lesbians: Willow, Tara, Kennedy

Subtextual gay couples: Angel and Wesley, Angel and Xander, Spike and

Xander, Spike and Angel

Sexual fantasies: "Mind screens" of fantasizing characters.

Textual sadomasochist couples: Spike and Buffy, Spike and Drusilla,

Xander and Anya, Vampire Willow and Angel, Oz and Veruca, Wesley and

Justine, Riley and Vampires, Riley and Faith, Xander and Faith

Subtextual Sadomasochism: Bondage, fetish costumes, spanking references.

Demon loving as a form of bestiality and vampire loving as a form of

necrophilia.

Yeah, I know, it's not something you usually get into with Buffy...I mean, it's a pretty broken down, academic subject, but if you could come up with some ideas, that would be awesome.

[emmasi]

Is this the question, or are these notes that you have? Because I don't remember subtext between Angel and Wesley, myself. Not like the other ones there. I think the obvious one - you might even call it text - was Andrew with Xander, Jonathan, and Warren. Particularly in "Storyteller," Andrew tapes a conversation between Xanda and Anya where they're discussing their relationship, and Andrew replays it and mimes along to Anya's part as if he wanted Xander to be telling him that he loves him and all that...

Sadomasochism - Dru and Angelus had that down, and I suppose you could mention that they each made Spike watch while they played with the other. The fact that Angelus wanted to destroy Dru's mind before he took her body - you could mention that; psychological torture. The fact that Angel and Buffy both seem to be attracted to people or relationships that will bring them pain - because they either think they deserve it to make up for the pain they've caused others, or they have to suffer in order to be a hero/marter - and when Buffy gets someone normal (Riley) he ends up going to a vampire whore and letting him feed on her to feel needed, because apparently Buffy's incapable of showing passion and want for anyone who's not threatening to kill her every other season

As far as Joss Whedon influencing the rest of the world, the TV shows coming to mind are Smallville and Veronica Mars. I'm not sure that Smallville relates directly to "perverse sexuality" but JTT's villain was pretty hot naked . Veronica Mars is very Buffy-like, only more cool and intelligent. She has the same sense of self-righteous apathy, and the same unwilling-hero complex; she has to single handedly save everyone in town, even though she's just a little blonde school girl. Her "super strength," if you like, is her brain and that alienates her from having "normal" relationships, just as Buffy's power alienates her.

POSSIBLE SPOILERS FOR VERONICA MARS AHEAD

Look at the two main loves of these women:

Buffy - Angel and Spike

Veronica - Duncan and Logan.

They're from the opposing social class to the heroine; human vs vampire, poor kids vs rich kids, which is, as you know, inherently makes the romance "forbidden," so you've already got that element of wanting the most difficult relationship possible.

Angel and Duncan are good, ethical people, but they both have sides to them that they can't control and could endanger the people around them (vampirism, Duncan's fits); they both believe that they've done bad things and should suffer for it (Angel killing innocents, Duncan apparently killing his sister); they both end up having to leave town, even though they're deeply in love with the heroine and would give anything to be with her. The heroine's left devestated and turns to the enemy to find comfort. Enter Spike and Logan.

Spike and Logan are of course polar opposites to Angel and Duncan. They're selfish and callous and go out of their way to cause trouble, simply for the fun of it. They say and do what they want - they're above the law. But they both love the heroine, even to the point of obsession. They'll change who they are just enough for her to love them, and that ends them up on the side of right.

So... in a way... I guess you could argue that without the perversion of these "evil" characters wanting to be sexually bound by the "good" ones, they'd never change their ways... interesting.

And if none of that convinced you, Joss Whedon once said that Veronica Mars was the best show on TV, and he even made a cameo appearence in it, so there

Sorry if none of that was relavant. It's very late and I should be asleep