Rachel Armstrong - Amy Mathews

[charmed60]

I have to admit in a couple of scenes I thought we were looking at Miles from behind when it was actually Rachel I don't think she could put up with his gross eating habits though!

She was okay with Tony, but he didn't really want more children and I didn't like the way she more or less forced him to have a reverse vasectomy

I'm intrigued as to what makes you think this? Tony stated loads of times that he wanted more children, we saw him have empty nest syndrome when Lucas left for Uni and he was the one who wanted to go ahead with the reversal even though Rachel changed her mind when she considered the dangers of it. He even bought booties for the baby he was so excited. He revealed to Jack his hesitance to have the reversal was because he was afraid of the surgery. Tony also knew the difficulties she had with Kim over children so I doubt he'd have gotten himself into a relationship with her knowing that if he didn't want children. I'll admit though that I wish we'd have actually seen them have the conversation about where they stood in terms of children. We never saw them agree to it, just had Rachel say "well we both agreed we wanted children" which is a bit of a waste in my opinion.

[Miranda]

I just got the impression that Tony had been through the sleepless nights and baby sick times and didn't want to go through all that again 20 years later. I'm sure he said that at some point...

[charmed60]

I just got the impression that Tony had been through the sleepless nights and baby sick times and didn't want to go through all that again 20 years later. I'm sure he said that at some point...

If I'm remembering the same scene as you...and I *think* that I am...it was Jack that said "I guess you didn't think you'd be going through it all again" when Tony tells him he wishes he never had the vasectomy done in the first place. And Tony says he just hopes he has enough energy for night feeds and teething. And it's very sad that I know that

[KirstyEkua]

Tony never said or implied he didn't want more children thought. He made it pretty clear he wanted a baby with Rachel as much as she wanted one with him. He told her as much many times. He asked her out knowing how important kids were to her, so i think its something he knew was going to happen one day. And Rachel was willing to give up having kids for him, which i think says a lot.

I agree Laura it's a shame we never saw the talks they had about having children. It would have been interesting to hear them talk about it properly I think it was needed as the whole things sorta happened out of the blue.

I miss Rachel. It's sad but i do. I think they missed such a big opportunity by not brining her dad back. So much was unresolved. And i do wish she'd talked about her mother more, especially during her pregnancy.

[Miranda]

Really Kirsty? I got a totally different impression, that Tony was just giving in to Rachel wanting a baby. Kind of: if he wanted to be Rachel's husband, he had to accept that she would want a baby super quickly, it was just part of the deal, like it or not.

I think often Tony/ Jon looks indecisive and his lines just tail off as if he isn't sure what he wants. Maybe its just his expression.

Anyway, its a good thing they had Harry, its always better to have a baby than not. And also, you never know, one day Harry Holden may turn up in H&A in the future, like Martha did. Wouldn't that be amazing? He could bring his aged parents along, perhaps with his brothers and sisters...

[charmed60]

I never got that impression at all; it's funny how people see things so differently! All of his 'doubts' that he spoke about were about the operation because he was worried about it and worried that it wouldn't work because of his previous complication, he never once showed any doubts about physically having another baby. And seeing as Tony was in the centre of all the Kim/Kit fiasco I think he'd have known Rachel wanted children way before they got together so must have known it would be in their future.

I would love to see Harry turn up one day! Although it won't quite be the same And we'd have to wait a good few years!

I'm always actually surprised when people say how they saw Rachel as this baby hungry woman because I never saw her like that at all She wanted a baby with Kim who was her husband and in the end I think the desperation came from the fact that she thought a baby would make him love her more; when she saw how besotted he was by a pregnant Kit and then Archie. Once Kim left, Rachel never once mentioned a baby at all until she got pregnant with Lewis. Then after that, again she wanted to try with her fiance which is totally normal. Plus I think if she really was just desperate for a baby and just going into a relationship for a baby she chose the wrong man in Tony She stayed with him knowing she might never be able to have children so it kinnda showed it wasn't the be all and end all for her.

[Miranda]

I never thought there was anything wrong with Rachel wanting a baby, its normal for women to want children. I think it was just the script writers making it seem obsessive, when they could have made it normal, with Rachel explaining how she felt to Leah, or someone. It seemed obsessive when she was with Kim, because I thought it was obvious he was far too young for her and not old enough to be a father. But then of course, Kit came along, and proved me wrong

[charmed60]

I never thought there was anything wrong with Rachel wanting a baby, its normal for women to want children. I think it was just the script writers making it seem obsessive, when they could have made it normal, with Rachel explaining how she felt to Leah, or someone. It seemed obsessive when she was with Kim, because I thought it was obvious he was far too young for her and not old enough to be a father. But then of course, Kit came along, and proved me wrong

Oh no I wasn't referring to you in my post, just a general observation I think she saw a baby as a way of saving her marriage when that clearly wasn't going to work. It did always make me laugh how Kim used the whole "I'm in my 20's, I want my life back; I don't want to worry about children, I want to be able to go surfing" argument to not have kids with his wife and then left her for another woman to live with their child where he's undoubtedly not going to get that. It's a bit late for that Kim! You shouldn't have gotten married and got another woman pregnant!

[Miranda]

Yes, Kim! You were a very naughty boy! tut tut tut I never liked him, but to be fair it was mainly cos he was obviously far too old to portray a school boy, which wasn't his fault. What were the casting people thinking?

Edited August 23, 2010 by Miranda

[charmed60]

It was ridiculous! His relationship with Rachel was meant to be really controversial but looking at them, it was clear he wasn't really that much younger and therefore I never could buy into the scandal. I don't think that helped when I was really angry at him for denying his wife a child because he wanted to 'be a kid.' I kept forgetting that he actually was one. Being about three foot taller than her didn't help either!