Aden Jefferies - Todd Lasance

[Zetti]

Sending Aden to jail what would it have achieved? There was an reason for it and I dont want to drag old arguments about using the abuse for different things but think about it, if Aden hadnt had suffered the abuse and been neglected by his dad then he would have gone to so drastic measures to hurt his dad, I really do think he was psychologically impaired at the time. Impaired may not be the right word but I cant really find another word to phrase it with.. anyways thats how I feel.. am intrigued to know what others think..

[LAURZY!]

I agree with the point that sending him to jail wouldn't of achieved anything, i really dont think it would of helped him at all. But i do however think he should of spent more time at the clinic or appear to be continuing his counseling, because he may of seemed to have worked things out, but i think it would of taken abit longer to actually help him in the long run.

Edited December 22, 2008 by LAURZY!

[Red Ranger 1]

Oh boy, what have we started?Okay, firstly my problem with the Tam incident, and I realise this is a result of me psychoanalysing it far far too much, is that in retrospect it pretty much looks like a substitute for sex.(And as for the drinking, no he didn't force her.But it was a kind of peer pressure. She looked surprised and uncertain when he gave her the drink but she went along with it because she liked him.)

Axel.I would definitely call that pre-meditated.We don't know what happened when Aden found Axel, he might have confessed, he might have said something that made Aden realise he was lying, he had tried to force himself on Belle immediately beforehand and Aden pulled him off(but then people believed Annie's claims because he'd done something similar with Tam), some people have suggested Aden might have known something about Axel we didn't(although that raises the question of why he was friends with him).But the way he exited the Den, telling Belle "If you see Axel, tell me", he'd obviously already decided to do some damage.My main problems are firstly that Aden never showed any remorse and secondly that no-one in Summer Bay seemed particularly bothered about what he'd done.In fact, Belle actually seemed to soften towards him after that which raises a few questions.

What he did to his father and Rachel I probably wouldn't call pre-meditated.He didn't go to the house with the intention of killing his father or allowing him to die and he neither planned nor wanted to kidnap Rachel, it was just a case of wrong place, wrong time.However, while he was(is?)undoubtedly troubled, I'm not entirely convinced about him suffering a breakdown or not being responsible for his actions.He found out his father could have stopped his abuse so he wanted him to die.That is a conscious choice.Despite claims he was a different person, his actions seemed consistent with his earlier attitudes, his beating of Axel and his statement a few weeks earlier that he wished his grandfather was still alive so he could make him pay.Let's not forget he kept Rachel and his father prisoner for nearly two days.That's not a moment of madness or a spur of the moment decision.He could have ended it at any time.Did he deserve to go to jail?Well, it's all right saying "It wouldn't have helped him" but since when was a sentence supposed to help the perpetrator?And I don't think having a reason for your actions automatically translates as being not guilty.If someone commits murder and they've got a motive, you don't say "Would going to jail help them?", you say "Does their crime justify this sentence?"

Regarding the earlier comments about who knows what, I think people's attitude towards Aden pre- and post-trial has been very badly written.When Aden came out of the clinic, people like Alf and Irene, who didn't like Aden before he kidnapped their family and friends, pretty much welcomed him back with open arms.It was if no-one cared what he'd done or why he'd done it.I wanted to know how people reacted to him at school but we got about half a scene of Matthew taunting him at the surf club, causing him to skip school rather than put up with it.And then when he did go to school, we didn't get a single scene of him there.There was a very strange scene during the trial where Rachel was expressing her regret that she wasn't allowed to say anything to help Aden and Tony and Jack just sat there not saying anything.What exactly did they make of it?Did they know why Rachel was trying to help Aden after what he'd done to her or did they just accept it?

And then Aden's speech at the trial was written as something major but nothing happened as a result. He said that if he told the court what happened to him everyone would know but no-one's said a word. The only person in court who didn't seem to know already was Nicole and she hasn't said a word either. Did the papers report what had happened?Are we supposed to assume everyone in Summer Bay knows and they're all too polite to say anything?"There's going to be consequences,"said Roman when he saw Aden at the police station.How I laugh at that line.

Going completely off topic, those two incidents, the kidnap and Axel, seem to be part of a curious affliction going around at the moment, storylines being abandoned instead of resolved.When Irene and Geoff tried to split up Jai and Annie, there was no real pay-off, we just saw Geoff standing next to Jai at the surf carnival as if they're suddenly friends.Which is why, and people who've seen beyond UK pace might be laughing at me now, having just seen Nicole's revelation at the Halloween party, I'm not expecting it to be mentioned again.

[Zetti]

All of your comments just make Aden seem evil yet we are all forgetting the main thing he is human. We all make mistakes and yet you seem to condemn Aden for something maybe not all of us can control a simple reflex maybe?

[Slade]

Oh boy, what have we started?

Groundhog Day Part Two, which incidentally is entirely your doing.

I can infer from the Adelle discussion thread that similarly this will inevitably go round in circles so I don’t really want to waste too many posts debating this particular issue.

Sending Aden to jail what would it have achieved? There was an reason for it and I dont want to drag old arguments about using the abuse for different things but think about it, if Aden hadnt had suffered the abuse and been neglected by his dad then he would have gone to so drastic measures to hurt his dad, I really do think he was psychologically impaired at the time. Impaired may not be the right word but I cant really find another word to phrase it with.. anyways thats how I feel.. am intrigued to know what others think..

What if Larry claimed that the reason why he accidentally killed Axel (due to his drinking) was because he couldn’t cope and the reason why he couldn’t cope was because he never overcame the abuse he received from his dad. Do you think this would be a good argument to avoid jail or even have his sentenced reduced?

Now a change of subject.

Regarding the earlier comments about who knows what, I think people's attitude towards Aden pre- and post-trial has been very badly written.When Aden came out of the clinic, people like Alf and Irene, who didn't like Aden before he kidnapped their family and friends, pretty much welcomed him back with open arms.It was if no-one cared what he'd done or why he'd done it.I wanted to know how people reacted to him at school but we got about half a scene of Matthew taunting him at the surf club, causing him to skip school rather than put up with it.And then when he did go to school, we didn't get a single scene of him there.There was a very strange scene during the trial where Rachel was expressing her regret that she wasn't allowed to say anything to help Aden and Tony and Jack just sat there not saying anything.What exactly did they make of it?Did they know why Rachel was trying to help Aden after what he'd done to her or did they just accept it?

Going completely off topic, those two incidents, the kidnap and Axel, seem to be part of a curious affliction going around at the moment, storylines being abandoned instead of resolved.When Irene and Geoff tried to split up Jai and Annie, there was no real pay-off, we just saw Geoff standing next to Jai at the surf carnival as if they're suddenly friends.Which is why, and people who've seen beyond UK pace might be laughing at me now, having just seen Nicole's revelation at the Halloween party, I'm not expecting it to be mentioned again.

As I mentioned on another thread there is a much wider problem. And that is (I’m not sure if there is a shortage of quality scriptwriters) that some of the characters and storylines have woefully been neglected over the past few months. I’m not sure if this coincides with Bevan Lee’s departure or Sally’s exit. Anyway take Alf, Irene and Leah - The three longest standing characters in the show at the moment. I can’t think of a single decent storyline from any of these three recently (albeit Irene was involved in KK return and I’m not quite sure what’s happening with Alf and Bridget). In fact they have all been relegated to support roles for some of the more recent cast members. And as you say some of the other storylines have not been completed and other cast members are doing things out of character.

For instance why didn’t Tony confront Aden in regards to his treatment of Rachel (he confronted him after what happened with Axel)? Why didn’t he tell Roman? Why was Belle so quick to forget about it? Why has Aden suddenly been cured in regards to sleeping with Belle? It would have been more prudent to drag the issue out for a lot longer and maybe wait several months before he was ready to sleep with her. Why do so many characters appear to have no (or very few) friends? Why hasn’t Kirsty contacted her family yet? Why is Belle still working at the Den? Why hasn’t she started looking for another job? If she is so eager to expose the council in regards to the development site then surely, she can get off her backside and start looking for a career. Why is there no central character (or characters), e.g. Sutherlands, Sally etc.

It goes on and on.

Someone made an earlier remark about Aden taking over the show and I would love nothing more that to blame that but the fact remains that even some of his storylines have been neglected so I don’t know.

I just hope things improve next year.

[Red Ranger 1]

All of your comments just make Aden seem evil yet we are all forgetting the main thing he is human. We all make mistakes and yet you seem to condemn Aden for something maybe not all of us can control a simple reflex maybe?

I'm sorry you saw it that way because, um, that was actually me trying to be reasonable.I wouldn't consider Aden evil but, without trying to labour the point or make extreme comparisons, I'm just using it as an example of someone committing a crime, murderers are often human as well.Slade just made a good point about the fact that everyone seems to think Aden's abuse lets him off the hook but no-one thinks the same about Larry.

As I said before, my main problem with this argument is the length of time Aden's actions lasted.If he'd lashed out at his father in anger, even killed him, you could argue that was a moment of madness or a simple reflex.But spending two days sitting there watching him slowly die seems a bit of a long time not to have second thoughts.

[Slade]

I seem to be spending a lot of time on this thread. Well I better make the most of it as they will be taking the forum down for a few days pretty soon.

Anyway, I actually don’t think Aden’s evil either. When he beat Axel to a pulp and tried to kill his father, I honestly believe that he felt he was doing the right thing. He just couldn’t see what he was doing was wrong. Belle even said this in court - he needed help because he couldn’t understand the seriousness of what he did. And this is exactly what the problem is. So if he’s not evil, this only really leaves one other explanation – he’s disturbed.

Now back to Red Ranger but on more than one occasion he’s referred to Aden as a sociopath. I’ve thought long and hard about this. Does Aden actually suffer from Antisocial Personality Disorder? This is a difficult one because he clearly exhibits some symptoms.

This was taken from Wikipedia in regards to people who are supposed to suffer from this condition:

Characteristics of people with antisocial personality disorder may include:

* Persistent lying or stealing

* Superficial charm

* Apparent lack of remorse or empathy; inability to understand having hurt others

* Inability to keep jobs or stay in school

* Impulsivity and/or recklessness

* Lack of realistic, long-term goals -- an inability or persistent failure to develop and execute long-term plans and goals

* Inability to make or keep friends, or maintain relationships such as marriage

* Poor behavioral controls -- expressions of irritability, annoyance, impatience, threats, aggression, and verbal abuse; inadequate control of anger and temper

* Narcissism, elevated self-appraisal or a sense of extreme entitlement

* A persistent agitated or depressed feeling (dysphoria)

* A history of childhood conduct disorders

* Recurring difficulties with the law

* Tendency to violate the rights and boundaries of others

* Substance abuse

* Aggressive, often violent behavior; prone to getting involved in fights

* Inability to tolerate boredom

* Disregard for the safety of self or others

* People with a diagnosis of antisocial personality disorder often experience difficulties with authority figures.

I’m not sure what other people’s take on this is but I can see at least four characteristics above which I would associate with him.

And before anyone starts yes it isn’t his fault the way he is, it’s his Granddad’s and you could argue that Aden’s Grandfather has directly/indirectly ruined the lives of quite a few people – Aden, Larry, Axel and his family.

[LAURZY!]

Like you, i can see a few of those characteristics in Aden, but i think they're the ones he's trying to overcome and deal with in his counseling sessions??? which is why i would of preferred them to make it seem or even show us him continuing to get that help and try to make his life more stable. In my personal opinion i would of liked the writers to progress Aden's character at a slower rate so we could see the changes hppening in him (does that make any sense? it did in my head )

Edited December 23, 2008 by LAURZY!

[Jody]

I just counted 5 characteristics from that list that describes me in someway. And I certainly don't have any deep dark secret thats been with from the time I was a child, I'm not necessarily angry at the world, or in any anti-social. So I'm not sure what the this proves or what the purpose of it was.

Honestly I don't know how anyone could watch that scene where tried to inject his dad and not consider what he was going through as a breakdown. The words he used 'I just want this to be over' shows how desperate and he was. And by the time he said that he sounded, broken, like all his hope was gone, and like he couldn't take it anymore not just like you hurt me and now you're going to pay. And as for before that, when he first entered the shed it was like he was gone mad a little. He went from completely mad, to blocking out everyone(that scene where they showed him just walk around not focusing on anyone), to desperate and wanting it to end because he couldn't take it anymore. When he threatenned other people or his grandad that time with Belle it was different and if you go back and watch you'll clearly see how different he acted, that was like typical Aden, but these scenes with his father in the shed even when he was screaming and angry at his father he seemed like he was losing his mind and gone mad and thats why I see this has different then all his previous actions.

And a breakdown doesn't last 10 minutes or so. It's not a spur of the moment thing. Sometimes breakdowns happen over the course of a few days(and sometimes even more then 2).

Edited December 23, 2008 by Jody

[Zetti]

I totally agree with Jody, how do we know how long the breakdown was for? Actions are determined by us but that wasnt IMO something he could control.