Kyle Braxton - Nic Westaway

[kmp1963]

I wanted to post this in the 'what if' thread but it contains spoilers so.

While pondering and posting about fan loyalty to our favourites and the subsequent double standards that ensue. A 'what if' occurred to me.

What if it was Kyle who knew Brax was alive, and the producers still followed the same storylines, including the kidney transplant.

I pose the question because it amused me to imagine all the excuses that Kyles fans would be making for his actions, as opposed to the vitriol that is being poored on Ash's head.

Sorry but once the thought occurred, I had to post it.  

Fan loyalty, such an interesting thing isn't it?

[emmasi]

Ahhh I'm bored. I might as well bite

So what are you asking, exactly? If Kyle needed a kidney and took one from Ash, when Ash didn't know that Brax was alive and also compatible, would that be okay? No, I don't think it would. I think that would be very dark and unsettling. Would I continue to like Kyle at a character? Probably. If he OWNED what he had done, and felt guilty for it, and struggled with the lie. 

If Ash needed the kidney, and Kyle offered it to him instead of calling Brax back to the Bay, would that be okay? Well, yes, probably. I'd probably be saying what a great guy Kyle is for making that sacrifice to save the man his ex is "in love with". 

Would I be okay with Kyle keeping the secret from Ricky when Ricky was having a complete breakdown over Brax's "death"? No. I would not be okay with that. Would I find some excuse for it? Yes, probably. Or maybe I wouldn't. Maybe I wouldn't be able to forgive him for doing that to her when he is supposed to be her family, and supposed to be taking care of her and the baby. 

Anyway, the situation cannot be reversed.

Ash is not Brax's brother. Ash is not effectively Ricky's brother-in-law. Ash is not Casey's uncle. Ash has not loved Phoebe for years, or proposed to her, or been very open about wanting a family with her. 

Kyle did not let Brax tag along on a roadtrip to find his long lost sister, and then get caught up in a murder plot, and then allow Brax to go to jail on his behalf. Kyle did not hit on Denny after Brax expressly asked him not to, in honour of Casey's memory (not something I actually agreed with, incidentally, but this led to...) Kyle did not dump Denny to then hit on Ash's girlfriend. Kyle did not kiss Ash's girlfriend. Kyle did not sleep with Ash's ex-girlfriend the same day (if not the same hour) she broke up with Ash. Kyle did not complain about not being allowed to express his love for Phoebe because everyone was against them, you know, on account of how they got together by cheating on Ash behind his back... 

I doubt any of this is getting through so I'll just end it there and shrug. 

 

[kmp1963]

Ahhh I'm bored. I might as well bite

So what are you asking, exactly? If Kyle needed a kidney and took one from Ash, when Ash didn't know that Brax was alive and also compatible, would that be okay? No, I don't think it would. I think that would be very dark and unsettling. Would I continue to like Kyle at a character? Probably. If he OWNED what he had done, and felt guilty for it, and struggled with the lie. 

If Ash needed the kidney, and Kyle offered it to him instead of calling Brax back to the Bay, would that be okay? Well, yes, probably. I'd probably be saying what a great guy Kyle is for making that sacrifice to save the man his ex is "in love with". 

Would I be okay with Kyle keeping the secret from Ricky when Ricky was having a complete breakdown over Brax's "death"? No. I would not be okay with that. Would I find some excuse for it? Yes, probably. Or maybe I wouldn't. Maybe I wouldn't be able to forgive him for doing that to her when he is supposed to be her family, and supposed to be taking care of her and the baby. 

Anyway, the situation cannot be reversed.

Ash is not Brax's brother. Ash is not effectively Ricky's brother-in-law. Ash is not Casey's uncle. Ash has not loved Phoebe for years, or proposed to her, or been very open about wanting a family with her. 

Kyle did not let Brax tag along on a roadtrip to find his long lost sister, and then get caught up in a murder plot, and then allow Brax to go to jail on his behalf. Kyle did not hit on Denny after Brax expressly asked him not to, in honour of Casey's memory (not something I actually agreed with, incidentally, but this led to...) Kyle did not dump Denny to then hit on Ash's girlfriend. Kyle did not kiss Ash's girlfriend. Kyle did not sleep with Ash's ex-girlfriend the same day (if not the same hour) she broke up with Ash. Kyle did not complain about not being allowed to express his love for Phoebe because everyone was against them, you know, on account of how they got together by cheating on Ash behind his back... 

I doubt any of this is getting through so I'll just end it there and shrug. 

 

While rather casualy pondering life, the universe and the state of the show yesterday, I psted a number of thoughts in numerous threads. This rather random what if popped. Into my head after posting about Phoebes pregancy in another thread. I was more contemplating how badly the show has handled this story. And how pointless and destructive the story has been to certain characters.

I was also contemplating fan loyalty and laughing at how passionately WE ALL, (I include myself in this) defend our favourites. Including going so far as blaming the producers, the writers and sunspot activity for any perceived harsh treatment of said favorite.

Conversely, we all (again kmp puts her hand up) fiercely attack those characters we dislike, even to twisting every action they do, so as to not see any good in them. Again this makes me laugh, (again at myself included). After all, its a damn soap.

However, to the point of my pondering, even as I railed against the poor handling of certain aspects of the show, I was moved to consider that as long as the show continues to engender such fierce loyalty and passion in its fans, it must be doing something right. Funnily enough, as I read your long, impassioned post, defending your favorite, and equally fierce denunciation of those you dislike. I couldn't help but think you'd proved my rather casually posed point. Kyles fans would leap to his defence. Sorry I couldn't help but smile.

Equally, I giggled at your last little dig. I'll make you a deal, I'll agree that the Braxtons weren't the worst thing to happen to the show, when you agree that Phoebe isn't Alexis Carrington reincarnated.

Viva LA difference.

Viva LA passion.

Viva LA loyalty.

PS for those of you too young to know. Alexis was on Dynasty. The ULTIMATE soap uber bitch. I loved her to bits.

 

 

[emmasi]

I guess I'm too young... I do LOVE an uber bitch who OWNS her bitchiness. My biggest problem with Phoebe is that she is always playing the long-suffering victim, and only admits fault if it will lead to immediate codling, which it ALWAYS does.

My all time favourite H&A character was Robbie Hunter, and Amanda Vale tore his family to shreds. He ended up having to kill his own grandfather because of her cruelty and greed. (She was keeping the old man on life support when he was already brain dead because there was some issue with his will that meant she'd lose his money if he died.) I bring this up to illustrate that I LOVED Amanda. She was FANTASTIC! You may have noticed that I've been praying for Charlotte to turn out like her, that's how much I miss her antics. I'll defend the characters I love, but I won't spew bile at the characters who hurt them as a matter of course. 

The difference between Amanda and Phoebe is, although Amanda played the victim and craved sympathy and reassurance that she wasn't really THAT bad, the writers, the other characters, and the majority of the audience knew that, yes, in fact, she really WAS that bad. 

I proved your point because your point was valid; of course I'll defend a character I like and try to explain why I would want to defend him. Isn't that kind of the whole point of what we're doing here? 

Let me ask you a question, though. Why don't you defend Phoebe and Ash just as passionately, if you believe in them so much? Why don't you explain to us why our hatred of them as characters is so wrong and unfair? Why don't you tell us who they REALLY are, how you see them, how you're truly invested in their relationship and why you MUST see it survive? These are genuine questions  because these are the kinds of posts I want to read and the kind of discussions I want to have. You're talking to someone who fell in love with Ash the moment she saw him. Tell me how I can get back to that place, and I'll follow you there.

 

[Luke39]

It doesn't matter who you are no one likes Phoebee and Ash, as there is no authenticity to them. None of there scenes share depth, its too superficial. I think the only way they can salvage Phoebe and Ash is breaking them up, and get them back to there pre-dispositions.

[emmasi]

I was just imagining what it would have been like if they'd left Ash with Denny, which was a sweet and beautiful relationship. Imagine if they'd been happy together, but as the anniversary of Casey's death approached, Denny decided that she needed to do something big to truly let him go. She had to take that trip to Europe they had planned together, and she had to do it alone, to say goodbye. Imagine if Ash understood, and let her go... And then Denny never made it to Europe. Imagine how much more devastating that would be, to have someone who was truly waiting for her to return, and would truly mourn for her when she didn't... *sigh.* It's not just Kyle who has suffered from these pointless developments, we have ALL missed out on some potential greatness. 

[kmp1963]

I guess I'm too young... I do LOVE an uber bitch who OWNS her bitchiness. My biggest problem with Phoebe is that she is always playing the long-suffering victim, and only admits fault if it will lead to immediate codling, which it ALWAYS does.

My all time favourite H&A character was Robbie Hunter, and Amanda Vale tore his family to shreds. He ended up having to kill his own grandfather because of her cruelty and greed. (She was keeping the old man on life support when he was already brain dead because there was some issue with his will that meant she'd lose his money if he died.) I bring this up to illustrate that I LOVED Amanda. She was FANTASTIC! You may have noticed that I've been praying for Charlotte to turn out like her, that's how much I miss her antics. I'll defend the characters I love, but I won't spew bile at the characters who hurt them as a matter of course. 

The difference between Amanda and Phoebe is, although Amanda played the victim and craved sympathy and reassurance that she wasn't really THAT bad, the writers, the other characters, and the majority of the audience knew that, yes, in fact, she really WAS that bad. 

I proved your point because your point was valid; of course I'll defend a character I like and try to explain why I would want to defend him. Isn't that kind of the whole point of what we're doing here? 

Let me ask you a question, though. Why don't you defend Phoebe and Ash just as passionately, if you believe in them so much? Why don't you explain to us why our hatred of them as characters is so wrong and unfair? Why don't you tell us who they REALLY are, how you see them, how you're truly invested in their relationship and why you MUST see it survive? These are genuine questions  because these are the kinds of posts I want to read and the kind of discussions I want to have. You're talking to someone who fell in love with Ash the moment she saw him. Tell me how I can get back to that place, and I'll follow you there.

 

Never have i said anywhere that I am a fan of phoebe and Ash as a couple in fact i posted yesterday in the phoebe pregnancy thread about that. I wont bother repeating it here. I do like Phoebe, for me she stands out among the young female characters as the only one with a personality. I dont give a rats about Ash either way. Im not sure how you got most of what you accuse me of from anything ive ever posted.

I mainly commented on the level of hatred being expressed. It has always seemed to be rather OTT, in my opinion. I do have an issue with double standards, which again is what I commented on. Comments that both you and others have gone on long and largely unconnected rants about.

 

[emmasi]

Then I have completely misunderstood you and you have completely misunderstood me.

I don't read the Phoebe thread because I have no appreciation of her and no business being in there.

You asked a question, I answered it, and then you laughed at me for doing so and still accuse me of double standards when I have explained over and over again what my standard are, but you choose to ignore that so you can go on making assumptions about anyone who happens to like any individual Braxton.

Here's a freeby for you, my favourite actual Braxton was Heath, and that was purely and unashamedly because I thought he was the best looking. I can't remember a single thing he ever did, except have a couple of kids and then leave town. Oh yeah, he also made a nice cameo at Casey's grave. Wow, I remembered two whole things about him. My all-consuming Braxton obsession knows no bounds!! 

Edited September 17, 2015 by emmasi

[lajonesy]

I was just imagining what it would have been like if they'd left Ash with Denny, which was a sweet and beautiful relationship. Imagine if they'd been happy together, but as the anniversary of Casey's death approached, Denny decided that she needed to do something big to truly let him go. She had to take that trip to Europe they had planned together, and she had to do it alone, to say goodbye. Imagine if Ash understood, and let her go... And then Denny never made it to Europe. Imagine how much more devastating that would be, to have someone who was truly waiting for her to return, and would truly mourn for her when she didn't... *sigh.* It's not just Kyle who has suffered from these pointless developments, we have ALL missed out on some potential greatness. 

They had set ups for so many AWESOME potential storylines, and then just . . . wasted them. THAT would have been heartbreaking to see, but the fallout would have been SPECTACULAR, and they could have then set up the Phoebe/Ash thing a bit further down the track. I mentioned in another post, they could have made the pregnancy storyline so much more interesting by having Kyle getting Billie up the duff as well. It's hard when you sit back and you see so much potential wasted on what feels forced, pointless and repetitive. My grudge against Ash has little to do with his character and more to do with the fact that I just find him extremely unattractive. And it's not his fault. I just find blonde men unattractive. I much prefer Kyle in the looks department. Am I shallow? Yes. Do I feel bad about that? Nope  

I do love Kyle's character, because there is depth to him. He does have a Jekyll/Hyde going on, but not to the point of crazy, if you know what I mean? What happened in regards to Phoebe I see as a bit of karma returning. He did something similar with Casey/Tamara. Though then killing off the babies, while typical of H&A (are babies expensive to have on set or something?) is a bit harsh. Hopefully though, they will make it up by finding him someone nice. 

Hey, dreams are free!
 

[pembie]

First of all I think Nic Westaway is a good actor. But I have never been much of a fan of Kyle. He's just never interested me much  But I  did think that Kyle and Pheobe were the most believable couple in the show They cared for each other on a much higher level than just the let's sleep together stages that everyone else seems to get stuck in.

That being said I find the Braxton side characters of the bay pretty boring now that Brax has gone. They seem abit pointless now

Yes Kyle's still there and I would say his the best character out of the others who live with him now.

I think the main reason why I find them boring isn't because of the story being told such as Pheobe's twins story Its the fact that everyone just forgives each other far too easily and moves on far too quickly before the story can reach its full impact. Ricky forgetting about Brax and going after Nate. Kyle and Ash mates again. Even Ricky would she really get along with Ash after what happened with Brax?

Edited September 21, 2015 by pembie