Andy Barrett - Tai Hara

[~Lynd~]

Like I said in the Aus discussion thread, it was pretty decent as far as recent departures go.It wasn't great for multiple reasons but at least he left trying to save his brother from jail instead of going to jail for someone he hardly knows or miraculously gets to drive off into the sunset after breaking several laws.I hardly think they got a happy ending seeing they'll spend their lives looking over their shoulder.

I'm half expecting some half hearted comment in 6 months about them having been found and somehow getting all charges dropped.It really wouldn't surprise me.

[jodlebirger]

I won't quit watching only because Oscar is getting killed and Andy and Josh are going on the run. But because of the constant tendency to ruin the characters by the end, and undoing a lot of character work they have done with the characters. And also for not using the characters to their potential such as Oscar, Chris and Nate and several others through the years. And for the lack of natural character development when the characters change behaviour from psychopaths to good boys (Hunte and Kyle++). 

Andy was a thug when he came in, but he had a logical character development. The killing of Jake was unnecessary and only because the police didn't do their work and only to get the blame off Brax. It was Brax who hurt Jake in the car chase not Andy. They could easily have killed him off there, he was in a coma. And with Charlotte, she should have been arrested for terrorising the whole town and for killing Denny and other characters. I don't get this "oh he killed Charlotte" or "oh he killed Jake"- thing. These were murderers, and psycopaths, and their storylines should have been ended earlier. And the explosion wasn't Andy's fault but the caravan park's from what I have seen from a short clip of the whole thing. Others could have knocked that cans down too, please do these kind of storylines more logical writers!! 

 I don't understand why they always have do undo all the character work they are doing with such characters during the stay, when they are departing. It was unnecessary to write these storylines like they have done. To run away from the law isn't something that should be glorified either. It's wrong, and it's also not excactly that living on the run is to live a normal and happy life. They destroyed Kirsty and Kane with it, now they are doing the same with Josh and Andy. It is not as bad as with Kirsty and Kane since those two had a better character development than Andy (and Josh), but still wrong. Death or prison would have been better really. 

 

Edited July 6, 2016 by jodlebirger

[Ludub]

14 hours ago, Red Ranger 1 said:

If there is a god, then he just smited Home and Away down.So Oscar gets crushed to death while Andy, the person responsible, gets to swan off into the sunset with no repercussions. That just demonstrates everything that's wrong with this show.That's it, I'm done.I'll keep watching at UK pace until we get to that point but then I'm finished.This is not Home and Away.

I'm sorry to hear that, Red!  I'm not really sure that it's true to say that this isn't Home and Away though. They have done things like this before, many many times over. Hugo and Martha spring to mind as a perfect example. I mean, Hugo was a mass murderer unless I'm badly mistaken, who was not only responsible for the deaths of 12 Indonesian immigrants but also Lou De Bono, and he almost let Irene go to prison for him. They allowed him to run away with Martha and live 'happily ever after' on the run. Roman on the other hand, killed one of his fellow soldiers in order to protect the rest of his unit (if memory serves) and while he did cover it up, it could have been viewed under 'self defence' (defined as protecting oneself or others from legitimate danger). He ended up with an unreasonably heavy sentence too (someone said it was a life sentence???!) just because the show wanted rid of him. That was just as ridiculous as Josh getting 25 years for manslaughter. Then there are so many examples of characters being given exceptionally lenient sentences just like Hunter's. Aden got a bit of community service for kidnap, false imprisonment, and attempted murder, Casey hardly did any time for his father's murder - just 2 off the top of my head. A few scenes of picking up rubbish and nothing more said about it. And what about Angelo killing Jack? Gets to come back and be the town's policeman again. He killed Jack and covered it up too. Was he any better or worse than Josh? Why did he get to swan off into the sunset with Nicole and a cute little baby? Hunter nearly killed his whole family in a house fire and covered it up, showing absolutely no remorse and nearly letting Billie go to prison for it, and he tried to stab Andy to death in front of police officers, and all he got was a suspended sentence?! Josh, 25 years for manslaughter?! Seriously?! So, I suppose my point is that they've always let some characters away with murder (literally) and kicked others firmly in the nuts whether they deserved it or not.

Maybe you could view the most recent wave of exits as a cull and think of the show as having a fresh slate now that the Braxton and Barrett era is over? I know that Ray Meagher wanted the show to go in a different direction. Maybe that's what this bloodletting was all about? Maybe they wanted to get rid of all the old characters in a short time frame to start afresh? Oscar's exit should have been handled differently. I agree with you there, so I wonder what was going on behind the scenes... I'm not sure what the plan is now that there's hardly any of the old cast left but I reckon I'll keep on watching anyway and see where they take it...

[Luke39]

 I guess if your biast to certain characters, and biast againgst certain characters ahem. You won't like how they delt with Oscar, Josh, Andy e.t.c. I mean get you like a character. But not everyone needs a happy ending all the time. Oscar dieing while maybe one could argue, deserved better. ITs life end of day, sometimes people just die lol. Obviousley Brax who is the complete opposite of a saint, actually got a happy ending. Which is so funny he is not even doing it ironically. He could of walked up to Alf shoot him in the face, and he would still be sipping pinatas on a beach in Hawaii. Typical Mary Louise character. I Think with Andy and Josh they tried to take advantage of the popularity of the Braxtons. But it just diddn't geel authentic most of the time. I liked Josh, Andy was awful when he first came but he got better, and was tolerable before he left. As far as exit stories go, its not bad, going on the run. It is not original, but its not Romeo bad. I thought Maddy abandoning Matt after all they went through was a ****ty exit story. But this one is not so bad. They seem to have done a clean out of alot of the characters. Their was talk they were going to get rid of alot of characters, and bring in new ones. I actually prefered the characters who have al been written out tbh. I miss Maddy, yes I went their :D. But this show has been on for 25 off years. Characters come and go. And through all of it Alf is the only one constant :D. 

[Red Ranger 1]

16 hours ago, Wanderer101 said:

Yes, I wasn't referring to the bad stuff he did, I was only saying that I don't think Andy running off is as free of repercussions as people think it is. And no, I'm not saying it's worse than prison, but it's still pretty bad imo. Can't live properly for the rest of your life.

I take your point but at best that's inadequate repercussions, at worst it's the viewer having to make up repercussions because there aren't any in the show.I tried to do it with Brax, that even though the show didn't have the guts to leave him in prison he'd condemned himself to a miserable life...and then the show handwaved the consequences of his actions and gave him everything he wanted.As Lynd says, I wouldn't be surprised if they announce Josh and Andy have somehow avoided justice altogether and are living happy lives somewhere.I don't think making Andy out to be noble because he helped Josh (who deserved to go to jail...yes, others deserved to go to jail and didn't, Aden, Hunter, Brax many times over, but multiple wrongs don't make a right) works.I might have respected him a bit if he'd got Josh away then turned himself in, but no.They're both cowards.Josh came in a coward, leaving Maddy and Casey to die, and he remained a coward.(Hugo never actually killed anyone and I could excuse him because if he'd gone to jail he'd have been dead. Angelo killing Jack was an accident, practically self-defence since he was being shot at, and he owned up very quickly, so I could forgive him.We never really found out what happened to Roman but yes, him being arrested and packed off to jail like that was ridiculous.)

I think what's really been the final straw for me is they set it up so Andy and Josh were going to jail.There was no way out of it, they were murderers and they deserved it.What's more, good innocent people that we were supposed to care about died because of Andy.He was the one that damaged the gas canisters and that was what caused the explosion, him picking a fight in an area where no-one was expected to go.And I don't agree with this philosophy of "It's okay to murder someone if they were a bad person." Every life has to matter, the law has to protect everyone, not allow thugs to go around acting as vigilantes and bumping off everyone they think deserves it.The show finally seemed to be getting on the right track, it seemed to be accepting that what Andy and Josh have done was wrong, that however much people might like them they needed to be punished.And then the show bottles it, the characters bottle it, they flee off into the sunset and characters we're meant to like and respect are pleased and wish them well.That is what has really killed Home and Away, characters like Alf and Irene losing all moral integrity and saying Brax is a good bloke, Hunter's a good kid, because they've got to be seen as part of the community when 20 years ago they'd have been driven out of town or handed over to the police.These are characters that should never have been on the show long-term and never should have been given anything even approaching a happy ending.

(Mind you, I actually like Maddy's exit.Of course she was going to leave Matt, they were never going to work out long term and I'm glad she finally realised it.)

Edited July 7, 2016 by Red Ranger 1

[pembie]

You could say that Roo was at fault with the gas canisters and anyone could of knocked them them over.

I quite liked Oscar's exit, and even though I wasn't sure Hannah should have left the way she did, not after having her cancer scare maybe her exit should have been about that. I was happy to see her go though she and Andy with their on off relationship stuff bored me to tears.

They kind of ruined the Charlotte story by dragging it on too long and having the Kat and Dylan story shoved into the middle of it I think. So I'm just happy to see it end now.

[Red Ranger 1]

Zac, an innocent man, went to jail.Josh and Andy, who killed people, didn't.That, my friends, sums up what Home and Away has become.

[Ludub]

6 hours ago, Red Ranger 1 said:

Hugo never actually killed anyone and I could excuse him because if he'd gone to jail he'd have been dead. Angelo killing Jack was an accident, practically self-defence since he was being shot at, and he owned up very quickly, so I could forgive him.We never really found out what happened to Roman but yes, him being arrested and packed off to jail like that was ridiculous.

Hugo: According to the character summary on BTTB -  

"Lou had seen the boat that Hugo and Derrick Quaid had been using for the people smuggling operation and Derrick had shot him so he couldn’t identify them. Hugo had boarded Lou’s boat to investigate and Lou had recovered enough to stab him, with Hugo knocking him into the water during the struggle."

I don't see how that's any different to Josh struggling with Charlotte when she tried to shoot him, or how Hugo leaving Lou to wash up like trash while allowing Irene to go to prison for it, is different from Josh's actions. Excusing Hugo's part in the deaths of 12 immigrants that he was directly involved in smuggling (in extremely inhumane conditions) seems strange. But we're happy to blame Andy for accidentally and unknowingly breaking a valve on a substandard gas cylinder that hadn't been installed properly? Okaaay?.... Hugo might not have shot the immigrants in the head but they did die while being smuggled and in my view he is responsible for their deaths. And he showed absolutely no remorse for anything that he'd done!  He was also most definitely guilty of a very serious assault against Charlie (Tank went to prison for a lot less).

Josh killing Charlotte was an accident and should have been ruled self defense. Angelo said that he was being shot at (no one saw that but us), Josh was struggling with Charlotte who pulled a gun on him. Much the same thing. Josh didn't go and get a gun or a knife and go there to kill Charlotte. He didn't go into her bag to find her gun and pull it on her. He accidentally shot her in a struggle in which he could equally have ended up dead (which might have been Charlotte's intention).

Andy did murder Jake Pirovic and for that he should gave gone to prison.

Anyway, we'll never agree about Andy, and that's okay. People have very different views and perceptions of things. If we like certain people and have invested in the characters we're much more willing to excuse them their poor decisions. Maybe I'm wrong, but I suspect that, had it turned out that Oscar had killed Charlotte in the same way as Josh did, and taken the same course of action, we'd be having a very different conversation. And to be honest, I would have forgiven him too.

p.s. sorry for the strange font here. I don't mean to seem like I'm shouting .  It doesn't give me the option to change the font back to normal through my phone.

Edited July 7, 2016 by Ludub

[KittCatt]

Andy was prepared to go to jail for 40 years until Josh confessed and he came up with this plan to save Josh, not necessarily himself. He knows Josh would never have gone without him and would never survive by himself out there. I'm happy but not happy at the same time with this exit. As Ludub said, Andy murdered someone in cold blood and should have gone to prison, but, for now at least, he has escaped justice. 

He blames himself for Hannah and Oscars death, which, is a good thing by human standards. He did something that contributed to the deaths of 2 people he cared about and loved. I'm glad he showed remorse, because it did show that he cared about them. Tank didn't show much in the end, even if he was willing to go down for it, and neither did Roo really (at least she doesn't seem to anymore at least). All 3 played a big part in the explosion but for me far more of the blame lies with Roo. She was the organizer of the event and provided an unsafe environment. A hazardous environment. Anyone else could've knocked over those gas tanks. I have no idea why Andy was charged with double manslaughter. But this is Home and Away, where the police force don't know what they're doing. For me, I could not confirm that beyond any reasonable doubt that, take Andy and his actions out of the picture that the explosion would not have occurred. The set-up was still hazardous due to Roo's negligence. 

Was Zac actually sentenced or did he just go to remand? I can't recall. But Josh has been in remand twice recently, for covering up for Andy and killing Charlotte. Sure, he deserved to be punished for hiding his involvement in Charlotte's death but, for me, 25 years is a bit much. Especially, as Ludub said, Angelo in the end got absolutely nothing. And yes, he deserved to be punished for covering for Andy, but him being Charlotte's killer has let me down completely. I just never believed it was in character. But, obviously other people, like the writers didn't think so.

[Red Ranger 1]

19 minutes ago, Ludub said:

Hugo: According to the character summary on BTTB -  

"Lou had seen the boat that Hugo and Derrick Quaid had been using for the people smuggling operation and Derrick had shot him so he couldn’t identify them. Hugo had boarded Lou’s boat to investigate and Lou had recovered enough to stab him, with Hugo knocking him into the water during the struggle."

I don't see how that's any different to Josh struggling with Charlotte when she tried to shoot him, or how Hugo leaving Lou to wash up like trash while allowing Irene to go to prison for it, is different from Josh's actions. Excusing Hugo's part in the deaths of 12 immigrants that he was directly involved in smuggling (in extremely inhumane conditions) seems strange. But we're happy to blame Andy for accidentally and unknowingly breaking a valve on a substandard gas cylinder that hadn't been installed properly? Okaaay?.... Hugo might not have shot the immigrants in the head but they did die while being smuggled and in my view he is responsible for their deaths. And he showed absolutely no remorse for anything that he'd done!  He was also most definitely guilty of a very serious assault against Charlie (Tank went to prison for a lot less).

Josh killing Charlotte was an accident and should have been ruled self defense. Angelo said that he was being shot at (no one saw that but us), Josh was struggling with Charlotte who pulled a gun on him. Much the same thing. Josh didn't go and get a gun or a knife and go there to kill Charlotte. He didn't go into her bag to find her gun and pull it on her. He accidentally shot her in a struggle in which he could equally have ended up dead (which might have been Charlotte's intention).

Derrick killed Lou, the autopsy showed it was the gunshot that killed him, and he was the one directly responsible for the people smuggling, Hugo was just the pick-up man.I agree Hugo should have gone to jail but in the circumstances it wasn't an option.They needed him to identify those higher up and that meant witness protection.And, while his return stint didn't go him any favours, I could believe in him as someone who got dragged into someone else's operation when he was vulnerable (his girlfriend had just been killed).Angelo didn't keep quiet for months, didn't stand by while other people were accused and jailed, and did go to jail.I know some people felt he got off lightly, but he wasn't instantly forgiven like Aden, Hunter or Josh, most people hated him for a year afterwards.In my opinion, he earned his happy ending.

I suspect you're right, I would have forgiven Oscar and been okay with him getting away.But that's because Oscar deserved that, rather than having a car drop on him.I never would have believed Oscar would let Zac go to jail because he wasn't that type of person, he was the one who did everything he could to take responsibility for running over Tamara. Josh, on the other hand, is a selfish cowardly jerk who has spent years covering up Andy's wrongdoing even when it means stabbing good people in the back, betrayed Maddy in an underhanded manner and covered up a drug ring to save his own skin.So running away and leaving Charlotte to die and letting other people be blamed for it is entirely in character for him and he deserved to go to jail, not have his equally self-centred fiancé who's made the whole thing all about her fighting his corner to the end.