Andy Barrett - Tai Hara

[Red Ranger 1]

3 hours ago, D.B said:

Well you do make some good points, but really you can't deny that Andy did show real remorse for what he did. If it wasn't revealed that Josh killed Charlotte, I think Andy would have gladly gone down for the expolsion. That said, I agree with KittCatt, he wasn't fully responsible for what happened: the suppliers and Roo should have been held for negligence and while Andy did start the fight, Tank was also involved in it, and while I agree with you that he had every right to go to the fundraiser, I still believe that he shouldn't have gone. I mean he should have thought "Oh there are people there who would obviously have a problem with me there, so..." And to your thought that they should have done something about it instead of driven off, I don't think that either of them realised the damage. Now Andy was far from my favourite character but you got to see it from both sides. As to your thought to Josh always being a selfish coward, I'm not entirely sure about that. I mean, yes he should have turned himself in after the killing and I really didn't like how he used Evie's grief to (almost) escape jail, but when you look at it, it was both an accident and self- defence: Josh didn't go out with the intention to murder and Charlotte did pul a gun on him first. I think he just panicked afterwards. I don't know, I wish the show had just given us his side of the story instead of having us believe that he was a cold killer.

 

Well to start off, yes Angelo did admit to killing Jack but he only did that when attacked by Tony and besides Martha and Charlie already knew it was him so there was really no point in hiding it. As for Hugo... I'm really not getting you here: so it's ok for Hugo, who lost a girlfriend, to be part of an inhumane operation that was responsible for killing 12 innocent people, but it's not ok for Evie, who lost nearly everyone in her family and is afraid to lose anyone else, to help cover up for her fiancé .?? Of course, she was wrong to do it but I could understand why and in any case it was better than being involved with intentionally hurting people. Now while I agree with you that Josh was wrong to keep covering up for Andy, it is kind of understandable as Andy, despite all his faults (and there is a lot of them), he cares for Josh. As for Oscar, while I agree that he deserved more than the tragic ending that he got, if he did kill Charlotte in the same circumstances as Josh, he still should have gone down for it, not for 25 years but a reasonable amount. While I hate Charlotte and I wasn't sorry to see the psychopathic murder go way she did, she still should have gone to prison and murder is still murder (or manslaughter is still manslaughter, depends on how you look at it.) and if Oscar did murder her ( even if it was revenge for Denny), he still should not have run, same as Josh had. I mean, I really liked Oscar and I probably forgiven him, same as you, but still.

Wow, it's been a long time since I had this argument. I said everything I was going to at the time and haven't changed my opinion in the last two years so I won't bother writing another essay. Most of it's hypothetical anyway.I was never a fan of Andy, I think he (and to an extent Josh) ultimately got everything he deserved and it's a shame that a lot of good people (and a few not-so good people but they were people nonetheless) had to suffer and die because of them.And it's a shame I never got the pleasure of seeing them slam the prison doors shut on him for the next thirty years or whatever, but at least I can take comfort in the fact that he's there.Sorry, I'm ranting now.I seem to be in a bad mood.

Edited May 1, 2018 by Red Ranger 1

[D.B]

On 1 May 2018 at 19:26, Red Ranger 1 said:

Wow, it's been a long time since I had this argument. I said everything I was going to at the time and haven't changed my opinion in the last two years so I won't bother writing another essay. Most of it's hypothetical anyway.I was never a fan of Andy, I think he (and to an extent Josh) ultimately got everything he deserved and it's a shame that a lot of good people (and a few not-so good people but they were people nonetheless) had to suffer and die because of them.And it's a shame I never got the pleasure of seeing them slam the prison doors shut on him for the next thirty years or whatever, but at least I can take comfort in the fact that he's there.Sorry, I'm ranting now.I seem to be in a bad mood.

Yeah, sorry if I brought up bad memories and I know it's been a long time since people discussed this but I've only just new with these forums so I decided to just have my say on topics that are very interesting to me. I definitely agree with you though, it's horrible that many people ( both those I like and those I don't) have suffered, been injured or even killed because of these two (accidents in some cases, not accidents I others) and  I was not exactly happy, but satisfied when I heard that they were caught: it's good to see that justice can still be served in the show. Also very sorry for causing you to rant, I'm not trying to start any arguments with anyone... at least not yet, anyway. LOL! . But seriously thanks for taking the time to respond to my ranting.

Edited May 29, 2018 by D.B

[Red Ranger 1]

1 hour ago, D.B said:

Yeah, sorry if I brought up bad memories and I know it's been a long time since people discussed this but I've only just new with these forums so I decided to just have my say on topics that are very interesting to me. I definitely agree with you though, it's horrible that many people ( both those I like and those I don't) have suffered, been injured or even killed because of these two and  I was actually happy when I heard that they were caught: it's good to see that justice can still be served in the show. Also very sorry for causing you to rant, I'm not trying to start any arguments with anyone... at least not yet, anyway. LOL! . But seriously thanks for taking the time to respond to my ranting.

No problem, I was just slightly surprised that such an old comment was being quoted.I came very close to giving up on the show during that time and still haven't really come back into the Character Discussion section as much as I was beforehand.It wasn't just you causing me to rant, I think I had a very frustrating few hours for various reasons!

[harrietjames]

On 02/05/2018 at 03:56, c120701 said:

Completely off-topic, but my brain is obviously working hard to block out the Braxtons & Barretts as when I saw Josh killed Charlotte, I was thinking Josh West & Charlotte Adams and thought, ‘no Charlotte drowned!’

Josh did feel responsible - he thought he could have saved her, if he had a defib

[j.laur5]

11 hours ago, harrietjames said:

Josh did feel responsible - he thought he could have saved her, if he had a defib

Charlotte was bad person and don't see why anyone should think any less of Josh and more to point it was not intentional of Josh to kill Charlotte, it  was self defence. 

Charlotte would have killed more people had she lived. 

[D.B]

On 6 May 2018 at 12:13, j.laur5 said:

Charlotte was bad person and don't see why anyone should think any less of Josh and more to point it was not intentional of Josh to kill Charlotte, it  was self defence. 

Charlotte would have killed more people had she lived. 

I agree with this while I don't like that Josh covered it up and let Zac and others take the fall for it, he didn't go out to shoot her and Charlotte would probably done more harm if she got  away

[harrietjames]

On 06/05/2018 at 12:08, harrietjames said:

Josh did feel responsible - he thought he could have saved her, if he had a defib

 

On 06/05/2018 at 12:13, j.laur5 said:

Charlotte was bad person and don't see why anyone should think any less of Josh and more to point it was not intentional of Josh to kill Charlotte, it  was self defence. 

Charlotte would have killed more people had she lived. 

Josh West...

[D.B]

Well. I might just do my overall view on Andy and Josh: 

Andy; definitely one of my worst characters, because unlike other characters that come from his kind of background, like the Braxtons, Xavior, or even Ash, he has shown nothing to prove that he has changed. That he wants to change, is debatable, I like to think the best of characters, but he hasn't really change, he is still pretty much a thug. However, I will admit he has had his good bits, mostly with Oscar, Josh or Hannah. He does have a caring side, but his usual bad way of thinking gets in the way of things often and usually overshadows his caring side. Him killing Pirovic, I was conflicted, because on one hand, Pirovic was a dangerous, murederous pyschopath who needed to be put off the streets, and also, as Slade mentioned here, he could have gone after anyone else if he lived. He has shown no problems with killing anyone, meaning that Brax,Ricky,Heath,Biannca,Kyle,Pheobe,Andy,Josh,Evie,Denny, or even Darcy and Harley were in danger. But the cold-blooded way Andy acted when he did it, not showing any qualms or hesitation (even if it is Pirovic), did put me off him. However, I don't think Andy is to blame entirely for the explosion. 

Josh; he was my favourite of the Braxton-Barrett group, he was really the one who wanted to change his life around the most, to step away from the crime and to live a decent life. And the writers reward his efforts by making him, though accidentally, kill Charlotte and covering it up.  I hated this so much because it was entirely out of character of him on both counts. I didn't mind that he killed Charlotte, because firstly, it was an accident and self-defence, and secondly, she was a dangerous murederous pyschopath who deserved what she got, but covering up and letting Zac and others go to prison, ultimately leading to unbelievable heartbreak and tragedy for Evie, the girl Josh loved, that I didn't like. But I feel like the writers could have shown some mental breakdown of him following the  incident, that would have been in more of character. I wished they would have shown us his side to it than just letting us think that he's a cold-blooded killer. However, he still gets points on my book because he didn't mean any harm. It makes me sad to see him, who just made mistakes and didn't mean any harm to be spat on mercilessly, while other who did mean harm (Ruby, Ash, Hugo, Hunter, Tank, etc) get treated in these forums pretty lightly. 

Edited July 29, 2018 by D.B

[j.laur5]

On 30/05/2018 at 02:42, D.B said:

Well. I might just do my overall view on Andy and Josh: 

Andy; definitely one of my worst characters, because unlike other characters that come from his kind of background, like the Braxtons, Xavior, or even Ash, he has shown nothing to prove that he has changed. That he wants to change, is debatable, I like to think the best of characters, but he hasn't really change, he is still pretty much a thug. However, I will admit he has had his good bits, mostly with Oscar, Josh or Hannah. He does have a caring side, but his usual bad way of thinking gets in the way of things often and usually overshadows his caring side. Him killing Pirovic, I was conflicted, because on one hand, Pirovic was a dangerous, murederous pyschopath who needed to be put off the streets, and also, as Slade motioned here, he could have gone after anyone else if he lived. He has shown no problems with killing anyone, meaning that Brax,Ricky,Heath,Biannca,Kyle,Pheobe,Andy,Josh,Evie,Denny, or even Darcy andHarley were in danger. But the cold-blooded way Andy acted when he did it, not showing any qualms or hesitation (even if it is Pirovic), did put me off him. However, I don't think Andy is to blame entirely for the explosion. 

Josh; he was my favourite of the Braxton-Barrett group, he was really the one who wanted to change his life around the most, to step away from the crime and to live a decent life. And the writers reward his efforts by making him, though accidentally, kill Charlotte and covering it up.  I hated this so much because it was entirely out of character of him on both counts. I didn't mind that he killed Charlotte, because firstly, it was an accident and self-defence, and secondly, she was a dangerous murederous pyschopath who deserved what she got, but covering up and letting Zva and others go to prison, ultimately leading to unbelievable heartbreak and tragedy for Evie, the girl Josh loved, that I didn't like. But I feel like the writers could have shown some mental breakdown of him following the  incident, that would have been in more of character. I wished they would have shown us his side to it tha just letting us think that he's a cold-blooded killer. However, he still gets points on my book because he didn't mean any harm. It makes me sad to see him, who just made mistakes and didn't mean any harm to be spat on mercilessly, while other who did mean harm (Ruby, Ash, Hugo, Hunter, Tank, etc) get treated in these forums pretty lightly. 

True i think Andy only bad boy  to kept edge to his character. 

 

But however I will never forget the scene where Andy found Marilyn after she went missing from Hospital. He was very gentle with Marilyn who was very confused and scared. He returned her to hospital without scaring her. Andy was able  to  being decent person but he still never turned into Mr nicest guy over night. 

 

[D.B]

6 hours ago, j.laur5 said:

But however I will never forget the scene where Andy found Marilyn after she went missing from Hospital. He was very gentle with Marilyn who was very confused and scared. He returned her to hospital without scaring her. Andy was able  to  being decent person but he still never turned into Mr nicest guy over night. 

Yes, I'll give credit to Andy for this, he did behave very nice when Marilyn was in a very vulnerable state. As you said, he is capable of being a decent person and, as I said, he had a caring side, like we saw when he looked for Oscar when he went missing, or when he became Hannah's carer when she had the accident, or when she comforted Evie when she heard that Charlotte killed Denny. He had some scenes of him being a nice guy, which is more than other characters that we're supposed to believe were always good guys, like Hunter or Tank. But that dark side of him, sadly, seemed sometimes to completely take over, even when he didn't mean to.

Also, mentioning this now, I'm probably going against the grain here, but I actually liked how he confronted Tank when he got released, it showed that he still remembered that Tank almost killed Josh in a cowardly manner, so I can understand where Andy was coming from.