H&A Spring Break - From the Bay to LA

[atrus]

Thanks for that. I didn't realise Mandy had three stints.

I certainly have memories from what must either have been the first or second stint, of Mandy hinting that she was a lesbian (and how tough that path in life could be) but not actually saying it outright. But I'm also fairly sure she had another girlfriend (just looking now, the girlfriend was Toni Jarvis according to the List of H&A Characters 1995), so it was pretty clear. I think Mandy went on dates with Shannon (but were they called dates?) and they had lots of lingering moments - but it's true that Mandy didn't seem fully to be reciprocating the crush, or if she was, not making that clear to Shannon, perhaps because of the age gap and/or her existing relationship.

Certainly I would describe it as severe tiptoeing, and certainly it was often confusing because of the refusal ever to state exactly what the nature of the relationship was. The romantic aspect in Shannon's final scenes was definitely underplayed and as Red said, not really evident on-screen, at least in that final episode.

But yes, the most concrete element of the whole plot was that Shannon clearly had feelings for Mandy back in that first stint that went beyond the platonic, and I recall this being addressed - again, probably in a roundabout fashion, but clearly enough that the meaning wasn't lost - in some lovely dialogue scenes between Shannon and Selina.

It's not an ideal way to tell the story, I know, but this kind of bet-hedging and fudging is a frequent symptom of soaps trying to cover 'adult' topics - although it's far more noticeable in H&A and Neighbours than in domestic content, because of a stricter regulatory regime in Australia. I don't know what, if any, cuts ITV made to the Shannon/Mandy storyline (it may well have cut some voluntarily, because of the proximity to CITV) but certainly the situation in modern UK broadcast rules is that no distinction whatsoever is made between depictions of heterosexual and homosexual relationships. The result is that these episodes look incredibly dated to the contemporary eye. Even so, while I wouldn't say this for all topics that soaps skirt around, I think sexual orientation is one of those things that is better addressed vaguely than not at all.

[beau_t]

But yes, the most concrete element of the whole plot was that Shannon clearly had feelings for Mandy back in that first stint that went beyond the platonic, and I recall this being addressed - again, probably in a roundabout fashion, but clearly enough that the meaning wasn't lost - in some lovely dialogue scenes between Shannon and Selina.

I also specifically remember Pippa asking Shannon "Are you and Mandy more than just friends?" to which Shannon replied "Would that be a problem?" I also remember Pippa being concerned about their relationship during Mandy's first stint, not because of homophobia but simply because of everything Shannon had been through - she was worried Shannon was going to get hurt again. Mandy's 2nd stint was actually a result of Pippa asking her to come back to the Bay, so she was obviously cool with whatever might develop.

When Mandy and Shannon finally got together, I never thought "Where did that come from?" From my perception, Mandy had always been attracted to Shannon but during that first stint she was reluctant to get involved with her because of the aforementioned warnings from Pippa and Shannon generally coming across as troubled and confused.

I do remember Mandy's girlfriend who I think doubled up as her editor, and Shannon's reaction to her wasn't a happy one!

Even so, while I wouldn't say this for all topics that soaps skirt around, I think sexual orientation is one of those things that is better addressed vaguely than not at all.

If you're talking about "addressing a topic" than I agree, but it depends if that's how you see the storyline. I just think it's a lovely story about a friendship that develops into more. It doesn't need to use words like "Gay" and "Lesbian" and doesn't need to show characters sticking their tongues down each other's throats in order to sell anything. I'm quite sure it's because of "tip-toe"ing that these things don't happen, but I don't think the story suffers from it. It's more character-led and sensitive than any of the lame attempts at a gay storyline that came after. I think the whole arc of Shannon's sexuality is well done. (I saw an interview with Isla from what would have been around the time of Mandy's second stint, in which she talks about Shannon's sexuality so it definitely wasn't a shock to her when Shannon got together with Mandy later).

I also like the fact that these terms weren't used and it wasn't explicitly stated on screen, because Shannon isn't the type of character to be defined by a label - which is precisely why she goes from fancying guys, to a woman, to guys, to a woman again. I wouldn't even say she was bisexual, she just follows her heart and loves the person not the gender.

[atrus]

Yeah, in an ideal world it wouldn't be about "addressing a topic", and I think on modern TV, storylines that feature gay characters or relationships often manage to transcend that domain of "if you're affected by the issues in the programme, call this number" because of changed attitudes. But certainly back then it was relatively taboo; and even now, while ever there is homophobia and while ever people struggle with their sexuality, there is going to be an element of that issue-led framework at play.

I'm quite happy too when you have subtlety for artistic reasons, and for characters not to label themselves - especially in the case of someone like Shannon who has dated men but also happens to have very strong feelings for this one (that we know of) woman. But equally you could hear the eggshells crunching underfoot as they tripped around the very basic facts of their relationship, and while there was enough insinuation for the gist to be clear in my view, the opaque way it was told did inevitably impact on the storytelling, to a degree. When you don't show characters who are supposedly in a romantic relationship kissing on the lips or saying they love each other, and you see them talking to other characters (including boyfriends) as if it's simply a close friendship, that is ultimately going to cause a degree of confusion or at the least dissatisfaction in the viewers. That's not to say it wasn't sensitively handled or generally a well-realised arc - I think it was, in very many respects, and it sticks very clearly in my mind 20 years later as a result. Certainly it's better than anything the show has dared to attempt in this decade. And ultimately, at the time I feel it would have been difficult to do it any other way - so I'm glad they did it.

[Blaxland 89]

But yes, the most concrete element of the whole plot was that Shannon clearly had feelings for Mandy back in that first stint that went beyond the platonic, and I recall this being addressed - again, probably in a roundabout fashion, but clearly enough that the meaning wasn't lost - in some lovely dialogue scenes between Shannon and Selina.

I also specifically remember Pippa asking Shannon "Are you and Mandy more than just friends?" to which Shannon replied "Would that be a problem?" I also remember Pippa being concerned about their relationship during Mandy's first stint, not because of homophobia but simply because of everything Shannon had been through - she was worried Shannon was going to get hurt again. Mandy's 2nd stint was actually a result of Pippa asking her to come back to the Bay, so she was obviously cool with whatever might develop.

When Mandy and Shannon finally got together, I never thought "Where did that come from?" From my perception, Mandy had always been attracted to Shannon but during that first stint she was reluctant to get involved with her because of the aforementioned warnings from Pippa and Shannon generally coming across as troubled and confused.

I do remember Mandy's girlfriend who I think doubled up as her editor, and Shannon's reaction to her wasn't a happy one!

Even so, while I wouldn't say this for all topics that soaps skirt around, I think sexual orientation is one of those things that is better addressed vaguely than not at all.

If you're talking about "addressing a topic" than I agree, but it depends if that's how you see the storyline. I just think it's a lovely story about a friendship that develops into more. It doesn't need to use words like "Gay" and "Lesbian" and doesn't need to show characters sticking their tongues down each other's throats in order to sell anything. I'm quite sure it's because of "tip-toe"ing that these things don't happen, but I don't think the story suffers from it. It's more character-led and sensitive than any of the lame attempts at a gay storyline that came after. I think the whole arc of Shannon's sexuality is well done. (I saw an interview with Isla from what would have been around the time of Mandy's second stint, in which she talks about Shannon's sexuality so it definitely wasn't a shock to her when Shannon got together with Mandy later).

I also like the fact that these terms weren't used and it wasn't explicitly stated on screen, because Shannon isn't the type of character to be defined by a label - which is precisely why she goes from fancying guys, to a woman, to guys, to a woman again. I wouldn't even say she was bisexual, she just follows her heart and loves the person not the gender.

Very well put

[Red Ranger 1]

I'd obviously forgotten Mandy's girlfriend.Maybe the subtext was stronger than I remember but I don't recall there being any overt reference to Shannon having romantic feelings for Mandy until her second stint.And in the first stint, I thought it was pretty one-sided or at the very least that Mandy saw it as an older person/younger person mentor/student relationship and wasn't going to cross any lines.It did seem like a more equal friendship in her second stint but there didn't seem to be any chance of it being more than that.So, while the possibility of them as a couple had been floating around in the background, the third stint did feel like it upped the ante a bit more, with Mandy suddenly seeming to have very intense feelings for Shannon that hadn't been evident before, and apparently having come to the Bay solely to win her over, while Shannon suddenly started giving off a "I don't want to get physical with you because I'm gay" vibe around Lachie that seemed a bit jarring.It didn't feel entirely natural to me, more like the whole thing was suddenly accelerated because Shannon's time on the show was coming to an end.

[Jamie2811]

Beau_t i tried messaging you, but it says you cant receive messages? Was wondering could i use one of your avatars as a profile pic? Theyre really good!

Interesting posts btw

[beau_t]

Beau_t i tried messaging you, but it says you cant receive messages? Was wondering could i use one of your avatars as a profile pic? Theyre really good!

Interesting posts btw

Sorry my inbox was full (didn't realise). Of course you can use one that's what they are for

[Jamie2811]

Thank you:) thought would use one with Vinnie seeing as it's Vinnie week in the old episodes this week

[H&Alover]

I think Mandy not making a move initially because of the age gap between her and Shannon would apply whatever sex either of the people would be, also if she sensed Shannon's interest in her where before she had been into lads she wouldn't want to sway her, some of it may have been heroine worship. Good then it was a slow burn.

[c120701]

I actually wanted to watch the next episode after tonight's - the Marat/Sade story which involved Pippa, Ailsa, Alf, Don & Marilyn.