Hello! I'm new here and would like some help with some unanswered questions :)

[Sally Keating]

On 1/29/2018 at 19:16, Red Ranger 1 said:

They must have known months in advance when her contract ran out and it wouldn't have been much trouble to bring Belinda back a few weeks early.

We don't know that. It could have been a great deal of trouble to bring her back earlier. It's possible the writers wanted a Sophie/Karen reunion (and Karen's whole arc may have been substantially different if Sophie had been a part of it, not just the couple of examples you make up to try and make it look like it would have been pointless) and tried very hard to schedule for it,  but the actress may have had other commitments in her life and wasn't able to come back any sooner, and Rebekah wasn't interested in staying on a bit longer, so they just missed each other. It's also possible the writers just couldn't be bothered dealing with it and deliberately waited until Sophie had left. We''ll never know either way and there's no evidence to support either theory - they are both equally likely.

The same situation applies to Bobby and Morag. Morag was one of the show's most memorable characters - as we went into the 90s I remember always wondering if she'd ever be back and being very excited when I read she would be. I couldn't wait to see her and Bobby interact again. But they never did. Why wait until just after Bobby died to bring her back? (I'm being rehotircal - there are good reasons why they waited, number one being what we saw on screen. The storyline playing out that way is fine if it's what was intended). But if they really wanted the actress back and knew she was willing to return, they could have written it other ways too. Ways that would have seen them reunite onscreen before Bobby's death.

Both of these "missed opportunities" were the same year, weren't they? 1993?

As for Sophie pretending not to care that Karen got sent down. I'm sure there is a later scene, possibly in the same episode, in which Sophie breaks down and cries, realizing that she has not only lost David but also her best friend too. Unless I'm mis-remembering.

[Red Ranger 1]

I dunno. It seems like Karen was brought in as a plot device to write Blake out.It seems unlikely to me that they'd bring a character back, especially for such a short stint, and then decide what they were going to do with them later.I guess things could have played out the way CaptainHulk suggested (and I'm curious that you dismiss my scenarios but happily embrace those) and Karen could still have left with Blake.But do you really think that at no point in the nearly year and a half that Rebekah was still on the show Belinda was available to reprise the role and do a Sophie/Karen scene?I'm not claiming any special knowledge but I find it very very hard to believe that they couldn't have done it if they wanted to.

[Sally Keating]

I don’t believe either way because I have nothing to base it on. That’s my point, both scenarios are equally plausible. Until/unless we ever get confirmation from someone in the know, it’s just conjecture based on individual opinion on what people find “likely” - based itself on complete ignorance of any actual details. 

As for embracing someone else’s ideas and not yours, maybe it’s not their ideas I liked, but the way they worded their post. 

[Red Ranger 1]

Well, here's my details and I'm sorry if the fact that I believe what I believe and think what I think offends you: Karen came back right after Sophie had gone.While she was back, there was no attempt to resolve or address any outstanding issues with the character or add anything new to her.There was no attempt to build a sisterly relationship with Roxy, to whom she was indifferent.There was no attempt to resolve things with Alf and Ailsa, who were as important to her as Sophie if not more so.Instead, the relationship was portrayed as antagonistic in a way that didn't really match what had gone before or since (Alf and Ailsa frequently visited her in juvenile detention and often visited her and Blake in the city afterwards).She gave a fake apology to Alf to get him out of the way.She left on bad terms with Ailsa after stealing from her.The idea that if some conjectural stars had aligned we'd have been presented with a completely different storyline where Karen returned and Sophie showed her the error of her ways and they hugged and were friends again seems like the exact sort of purely unfounded speculation you accuse me of.

That's what I believe.That's my opinion.That's what I think is likely.And that's what I'm basing it on.No, I haven't tracked down anyone who worked on the show in 1993 and asked them if I'm right.But I think sometimes you just have to use common sense and say that the most likely explanation for what happened, given the complete lack of any evidence to the contrary, is that Sophie being there would have been an unnecessary complication to the storyline that happened, so they made sure she wasn't there.

[CaptainHulk]

We did get some updates on Karen post-1993.

Ailsa was at least on some form speaking terms with Karen as she did go to visit her and Blake in '94 and by 2002 Karen had settled down and was now married according to Blake.

My take wouldn't have necessarily had them all girly and hanging out again; more laying the past to rest so each girl could move on. Still Soph, Karen and Blake head to Perth and The City, respectively.

[Sally Keating]

I don't think I ever said anything offended me.

5 hours ago, Red Ranger 1 said:

The idea that if some conjectural stars had aligned we'd have been presented with a completely different storyline where Karen returned and Sophie showed her the error of her ways and they hugged and were friends again seems like the exact sort of purely unfounded speculation you accuse me of.

When did I ever say that's how the story  would play out?

Why do you keep only making up one example out of your head as if that's the only possibility and using that as a counter-argument to your own point? As if "Well my way MUST be right because this is the  only other way and look - see how silly it is?" You did this a few posts ago too. It demeans you. Your arguments would hold a lot more water if you didn't resort to this.

If the writers had absolutely no intention of resolving anything between Sophie and Karen (just like as you said, she never resolved anything with Alf, Ailsa, nor created a relationship with Roxy etc) then really it would have made  no difference  whether Sophie was there or not. In fact it could have been used to further demonstrate to the audience how "broken" she was, that she didn't care and wasn't interested in making things better. Either way,  based on your own viewpoint which you just presented, it makes no sense that they'd deliberately wait until Sophie left when - like you said - she wasn't building bridges anyway.

Now... if only there were other scenarios or possible ways it could all have went  down.

Oh wait... there  are! Countless ones!

[Red Ranger 1]

They could have done that, yes.But I guess as I indicated earlier they probably thought it was an unnecessary side issue and so decided to side step it.Like I said, if they did want to include a Sophie and Karen scene, I think they would have done.What I'm saying is that the storyline we saw on screen is what they wrote and therefore probably the storyline they wanted.There might have been outside factors forcing them to keep Sophie and Karen apart but to me it seemed like it was done deliberately.If Rebekah hadn't been leaving and therefore they had to deal with the Sophie issue, they may well have done it the way you described.But she was and they didn't.

[Sally Keating]

7 hours ago, Red Ranger 1 said:

What I'm saying is that the storyline we saw on screen is what they wrote

Of course it is. It wasn't writing by flying elephants. Obviously what we saw on screen is what was written.

7 hours ago, Red Ranger 1 said:

therefore probably the storyline they wanted

"Therefore" does not belong in that sentence. You have absolutely no evidence to back that up other than a personal opinion on what is "likely" - and that itself is based  on nothing.

So back to square one, either scenario is plausible. Either they chose to avoid a Sophie/Karen crossover on screen, or they couldn't get it to happen. Basing what we saw on screen as evidence that the latter isn't probable, makes no sense - because obviously they're not going to write a story that they can't do. It's not like we saw a bunch of Sophie/Karen scenes with Karen missing in them!

For example - we all know they didn't want Judy Nunn to quit in 2000 and offered her a lot of money to stay which she declined (she has said this in interviews). However, what we saw on screen was Ailsa dying and being written out.  By your logic, because that's the story we saw, that must mean it's what the writers wanted, right? Even though it's been stated that it's not.

You can't use what we saw on screen as any kind of proof or to in any way invalidate theories that it might not be how the writers wanted it to play out. That's bizarre.

Either way, I have no problem with either scenario. Either they chose to avoid a Sophie/Karen crossover on screen (possible), or they couldn't get it to happen (possible), (or, third option, they didn't even think of it). I just think it's silly to believe one over the other when there's absolutely nothing  pointing to one scenario being more or less likely than the other.

So getting back on topic Red Ranger 1, rather than going round and round a rather tedious, monotonous point which nobody cares about Would you have liked to see Karen return while Sophie was still on screen, for example if Rebekah hadn't chosen to leave and was staying in the show, and if so what would you have liked to see transpire? Bearing in mind it doesn't have to fit with what we did see on screen.

I have to say, leaving the Sophie stuff aside, I do like that Karen was used to facilitate Blake's exit. Karen had left the show with an unfinished arc, or maybe more accurately, at least as an un-redeemed character. Even though when she returned she was still very broken, at least having Blake leave with her to help her, was a positive and uplifting ending for both of them. Also, they arrived in the show together as siblings who only had each other. So I feel like it was fitting for her to be the reason for his exit.

Also, what was with Alf's distrust and dislike of Karen when  she first came back? Was it just a retcon to add drama? Because I seem to remember he held no ill-will towards her when she went to court and in fact was hoping she'd come home.

[baywatcher]

On 1/31/2018 at 05:28, Sally Keating said:

As for Sophie pretending not to care that Karen got sent down. I'm sure there is a later scene, possibly in the same episode, in which Sophie breaks down and cries, realizing that she has not only lost David but also her best friend too. Unless I'm mis-remembering.

That's exactly how I remember it too. I can see it really clearly in my mind's eye, so it must have been well acted. 

I liked Karen and thought she got a raw deal.

[Sally Keating]

3 hours ago, baywatcher said:

That's exactly how I remember it too. I can see it really clearly in my mind's eye, so it must have been well acted. 

I liked Karen and thought she got a raw deal.

Yeah, I wonder why she was written out and replaced with Finlay.