2018 Season - UK Episode Discussion

[Razabaza]

At the wedding, why were there so many scenes of Jasmine running around playing that sporting game? She looked lovely, but still, it was a bit much.

I find Colby to be rather boring and lacking in personality. Dean has more charisma. Willow reminds me somuch of Kourtney Kardashian.

[Red Ranger 1]

Alf's episode count this week:Four. Things go crazy in finale week again, with Willow, Dean, Colby and even non-regular Bella appearing in all five episodes (although curiously Bella didn't seem to have any dialogue on Thursday, despite appearing throughout), and fellow non-regulars Chelsea and Ross appearing in four each (although Ross only appeared briefly without dialogue or credit on Wednesday).

I think my lack of interest in the wedding is mainly down to my lack of interest in Colby as a character or him and Chelsea as a couple, I think she could do a lot better and that's even before we have to get onto his getting her kidnapped by the double murderer that he let escape. I did appreciate Dean's firework display though and the way he casually set it up by starting the story of his previous attempt at a show.However Willow continues to have him well and truly in the friend zone, for all his, and possibly Bella's, hopes to the contrary.

What is Brody playing at? I mean, I genuinely don't know.He likes chatting about food to Simone but it's a bit of a leap from there to having sex with her.He doesn't seem unhappy with Ziggy so I can only think he wants to have his cake and eat it.Absolutely no sympathy with Simone's outrage either:She knows Brody's married, she kissed him knowing he was married (so hard to take her claim she didn't intend to break up a marriage seriously) and she saw a conversation between him and his in-laws that was way too friendly for them to be separated, so she doesn't get to play the victim.

I thought Tori was upset because she was pregnant but nope, she thought she wasn't but she is.As a doctor, she really should know how unreliable home tests are during IVF.And given she had a false negative when she was pregnant with VJ, Leah should know the same.Oh, and Robbo and Jasmine got engaged, good for them, now wait for the bombshell.

And then that cliffhanger, which was so heavily hinted at in the promos no-one was going to be surprised.You have to wonder what Ross is playing at and indeed what his plan was.He's removing any remaining doubt Bella had in her mind by taking her and her friends hostage at gunpoint, she seemed to half-believe his claims and Colby didn't have a better counter-argument than "You know what he's like." Maybe he's in full-on "If I can't have her, no-one can" mode by now.But just how long was he driving up and down that road waiting to bump into...well, who? Was he after Bella and just took whoever else was with her (in which case, why go in the limo that she wasn't meant to be going in?) or was he after Chelsea and just took whoever was with her (in which case...why?To punish Colby?).

Aaand that's it for the 2018 season.See you all on Monday in the 2019 thread!

[c120701]

Wasn’t there a different opening theme version (or was it title card sequence) for the Oz finale? We didn’t get that, did we?

[Dan F]

1 hour ago, c120701 said:

Wasn’t there a different opening theme version (or was it title card sequence) for the Oz finale? We didn’t get that, did we?

That’s correct, but then the triple episode in Oz as a whole had a completely different edit to the proper individual episodes anyway. Wouldn’t surprise me if they’d put the wrong one on, as they don’t usually change the title card mid-block.

[atrus]

And another three weeks fly by...

I can see that most people here agree with what appears to be the show's editorial line, which is that Tori having Robbo's baby without his permission is unforgivable. But let's just reel it back a minute and ask - is it really? Without putting too fine a point on it, if Robbo had fertilised the egg in the old-fashioned way, he wouldn't have the slightest leg to stand on by telling her she couldn't go ahead - and everyone here would be denouncing him for doing so. And okay, we can draw a moral distinction because the embryo wasn't growing inside her when she decided to go ahead without his consent. But to my mind, it's hardly a huge moral leap - after all, the embryo is biologically a part of her; is not a substantively different entity to what it would be if it was already in her body; his complicity in the decision to create it was far greater than with your average unplanned pregnancy; and for Tori to have the chance ripped away from her once they have created it does seem cruel. We could equally turn it around and question the morality of Robbo unilaterally deciding not to go ahead, after they'd already made a viable embryo. I'm not saying by any means that Tori's 100% right and Robbo's 100% wrong - just that the situation seems to me to be a lot more complex than the show is implying, which seems to be the opposite: that it's Tori who's 100% in the wrong. Whatever happens, I do think Tori at least owes Robbo some honesty, which is more than she's offering him right now; but I'd really like to see some proper discussion around the ethics of this, rather than just Tori playing it in a slightly crazed way and everyone else agreeing how irrational she's being. Apart from anything else, surely if she's legally in the right as she claims, then some ethical thought has gone into that legal position? I'm no expert but I'd be interested to know the reasoning/context behind the decision that the legislators made.

Enjoyed the wedding scenes a lot, which really captured the spirit of the Colby/Willow/Dean character grouping; and I've very much warmed to Chelsea over the last few weeks as she and Colby have reconciled their differences. I've really come to like Bella as a character, too, so I hope she's going to be a permanent fixture. But I'm going to ask the question that feels to me like the elephant in the room - has she really led a relatively happy life with Ross, or is there something super-creepy going on here that we're yet to find out about? It seemed as if the scene where he was sitting in a towel swiping through photos of her was possibly supposed to imply that, although possibly it wasn't at all - it was really quite ambiguous, and maybe that was the intention. In any case, I had to roll my eyes a bit at no fewer than three helpless damsels being bundled off in the terror-limo in the finale. I know International Women's Day probably wasn't on the producers' minds for this given that they don't dictate the UK airdates, but given what we'd seen on other soaps on the same day it wasn't a great look, I have to say. No doubt we'll be treated to the usual trope of big hero Colby (and probably sidekicks Dean and Robbo) charging to the rescue to save all three of them; not for the first time, I wonder why it can't be one of the women coming to the men's rescue. Anyhow, we've seen that Willow, Chelsea and Bella are all strong, capable characters, so hopefully they will play a significant part in resolving their own plight.

It's a real shame what's happening with Brody and Ziggy, but I'll say it - I told them so. Their marriage was way too rushed and entered into for the wrong reasons; and, while I've always liked them as a couple, they didn't have nearly enough of a foundation to build on. As such, when another woman reared her head, Ziggy was acting all green-eyed-monster for weeks and wasn't very nice to Brody, with little justification; and while I absolutely don't see that as an excuse for Brody making her fears a reality, I do think that Ziggy's immature behaviour probably played into his attention drifting away from her and towards Simone. Nonetheless, utterly awful of him to sleep with Simone while still with Ziggy, and then tell her that nothing's changed as regards his marriage - behaviour which largely ruins his character in my view and will leave him stuck with the reputation of duplicitous love-rat. Although for Simone's part, she should probably have better clarified his position before she went there if she was really worried about being the other woman.

Not sure what on earth the show is playing at with Raffy's age with the reference to her being too young to drive. If, as Red says, she was 15 over a year ago, then why not just make her 16 now? Apart from anything, 15 and 18 is not an insignificant age gap for someone who's not yet of consenting age, as Mason implied in his warning to Ryder - although I accept that Ryder is hardly a pushy boyfriend in that department, and that nothing physical has yet happened between them beyond the odd smooch. But if she was 16, Mason could still have legitimately made the warning. It just seems totally unnecessary that she is still somehow underage, and beyond silly that the writers just seem to have a wilful disregard for how old everyone is meant to be, despite them all continuing to be in the same school year. Coco's reaction to the news of their coupledom was much better than expected, meanwhile; it seems she's matured quite a lot in the last few months, and although she still seems relatively grumpy about it, she's not exactly taking it out on Raffy and Ryder, which is to be welcomed.

Wasn't at all buying Alf getting all wistful about his lack of a romantic life all of a sudden, when as far as I can see he's been very comfortably single for years. So I'd pretty much gathered before we saw the promo that it was very likely heralding Martha's return.

Loved the Mr Bojangles mention!

[Red Ranger 1]

1 hour ago, atrus said:

can see that most people here agree with what appears to be the show's editorial line, which is that Tori having Robbo's baby without his permission is unforgivable. But let's just reel it back a minute and ask - is it really? Without putting too fine a point on it, if Robbo had fertilised the egg in the old-fashioned way, he wouldn't have the slightest leg to stand on by telling her she couldn't go ahead - and everyone here would be denouncing him for doing so. And okay, we can draw a moral distinction because the embryo wasn't growing inside her when she decided to go ahead without his consent. But to my mind, it's hardly a huge moral leap - after all, the embryo is biologically a part of her; is not a substantively different entity to what it would be if it was already in her body; his complicity in the decision to create it was far greater than with your average unplanned pregnancy; and for Tori to have the chance ripped away from her once they have created it does seem cruel. We could equally turn it around and question the morality of Robbo unilaterally deciding not to go ahead, after they'd already made a viable embryo. I'm not saying by any means that Tori's 100% right and Robbo's 100% wrong - just that the situation seems to me to be a lot more complex than the show is implying, which seems to be the opposite: that it's Tori who's 100% in the wrong. Whatever happens, I do think Tori at least owes Robbo some honesty, which is more than she's offering him right now; but I'd really like to see some proper discussion around the ethics of this, rather than just Tori playing it in a slightly crazed way and everyone else agreeing how irrational she's being. Apart from anything else, surely if she's legally in the right as she claims, then some ethical thought has gone into that legal position? I'm no expert but I'd be interested to know the reasoning/context behind the decision that the legislators made.

Two thoughts present themselves. Firstly, unlike with a natural pregnancy, there’s no narrow window to make the decision. It may have been an oversight or assumption on his part but Robbo didn’t seem to be demanding that the embryo be destroyed. Theoretically, it could have been stored indefinitely, for years. Tori had the opportunity to look into other options and exhaust them, as Robbo seems to assume she’s doing. Even if she’d ended up infertile, so long as she had a womb in working order, she could have had the embryo implanted and carried to term. So there didn’t seem to be the urgency Tori acted as though there was, and if she’d waited a few years and it got to the point where it really was her only chance of being a mother, she could have seen how Robbo felt and had the embryo implanted then. Just because she said it was her only chance doesn’t mean it was.

Secondly, I think it’s the level of deception that’s got people annoyed as much as anything. She didn’t tell Robbo she was going ahead with the implantation anyway, she went behind his back. I think if Tori had got pregnant the natural way, and Robbo had told her he couldn’t cope with being a father again and she needed to have an abortion, and she’d gone “Okay, I will” and then gone ahead with the pregnancy thinking that he wouldn’t notice or he’d be happy about it eventually or she could pass the baby off as someone else’s, she would look pretty crazy then and people would have a problem with it.

Re Raffy’s age, to be fair, as pointed out, if you go by when she turned 14 then she would be 15 now. But given that the show referred to her as being 15 at the end of last season, just a few months later, then instead of compounding the error and making her 15 for a year and a half or whatever, it would make sense to run with it and say she’s 16 now. (Assuming of course that anyone even remembers what’s been established and isn’t just writing down the age that sounds about right.) Especially when there doesn’t seem to be any reason to make her too young to drive given that her epilepsy is the crucial thing.

[atrus]

All fair points on Tori; and I don't really disagree with any of them. But the opinion of the show (and certainly Justin's very emphatic view) did feel like it was wider than that, and that it would be the decision to have the embryo implanted in the first place that would be terrible, and that lying would just make it worse. I entirely agree on the 'lying makes it worse' part; I definitely feel that she needs to be honest with Robbo whatever she does. But if that entails saying (in as nice a way as possible) 'I'm having this baby whether you like it or not' then I'm not sure I feel so dead-set against it. Yes, she could hold off and explore other options, and I suppose that for reasons of drama she didn't do that - the justification we seem to be getting is that she feels her biological clock is ticking down fast and that she is ready for parenthood now, having psychologically prepared herself for all that after Robbo agreed to be her donor. And I guess she just doesn't want to take the risk of assuming Robbo will change his mind later; whether he does or he doesn't, she could find she's wasted five years which will be five years less of that child's life she'll be around for, I suppose. I also feel that there was a bit of an onus on Robbo to ask questions about what happened to the remaining embryo; it's all very well him calling time on the venture, but there ought to have been a sit-down discussion along the lines of, 'right, so are we destroying this potential life we've created?' which might have focused his mind somewhat. Obviously, though, the responsibility to do that was on Tori as well, not just Robbo.

ETA: I think in the scenario you describe, if he had impregnated her naturally, then yes there would be some concern if Tori tried to pretend the baby was someone else's etc - but there'd also be some outrage at Robbo for presuming to tell her to have an abortion. I guess the ethical quandary I'm interested in is what makes this situation different.

[Red Ranger 1]

Third thought that just occurred to me: What if, instead of the abortion metaphor, we ignore the fact the embryo's been fertilised and focus on the fact that Tori wasn't pregnant. Suppose Tori and Robbo were a couple trying for a child the old-fashioned way, she got pregnant and had a miscarriage, and Robbo told her he couldn't go through that again and wanted to stop trying. Tori acted as though she was okay with that but didn't go back on the pill (which he assumed she had) and fell pregnant again.Legally, she's entitled to do that.Ethically, I think people might have a problem with it.

[c120701]

Those points of view are interesting, they’ve certainly made me rethink the story.

If you turned it around though and it was a non-assisted conception and Tori had lost the baby, but didn’t want to try again but Robbo did, raping her/piercing a hole in the condom, she’d withdrawn her consent to have a child with him. But as it’s her body she has the right to abort the child.

Likewise, if Tori had got Robbo drunk or drugged him and had sex with him to get pregnant, would a court rule that the pregnancy should be terminated as the sex was non-consensual? 

Also, what if Jasmine were infertile, would Robbo have been able to claim the embryo  without Tori’s further consent and have it implanted into Jasmine?

I think this could be an opportunity for a really interesting consent story, I don’t think that angle will be taken though, it’ll probably just be a lot of Jasmine bitching at or about Tori.

I guess it also depends on the details of whatever consent form either of them signed. 

[D.B]

Well okay! Hello guys! 

I'll start with the wedding, which actually was kind of nice. I've really gone off Colby, and I'm not a big fan of Chelsea, but it was actually very beautiful. Dean really did surprisingly a very good job with it all, though of course they had the usual 'River boy' shenanigans. On Chelsea and Colby themselves, I'm conflicted. On one hand, despite their dramas, they both really seem to love each other. The wedding showed that love in a really sweet and majestic way. On the other hand though, I couldn't really find myself to invest in these two because often enough their relationship just goes on and off like an annoying cousin when you're staying at their house, and they continuously turn on and off the light switch to annoy you. Anyone know what I'm saying (No? Just me? Ok...)  I mean, at least two weeks ago, Chelsea was all 'I'm leaving and you'll never see me again,'- two episodes later- 'Wedding's back on, suckers!' Seriously.  The night before with Chelsea with Willow, Bella and Jasmine, and Colby with Robbo and Dean, was nice to see though. And Colby wanting to move to the city with Chelsea because it was her dream to become a detective was nice, but, a bit eye-rolling since he didn't seem to care that much about her dreams when he wanted her to cover up his finding of Bella. Speaking of, surprisingly enough, I'm still enjoying her scenes with Colby, and as for her 'encounter' with Ross, while now she has her blinkers off, there's always going to be that one part of a person that goes through what she has and would still care for him. Family, as twisted and wrong as this one is, is family. Kind of like Evie was with her father. And Ross, again proving himself to be a nasty piece of work, and dirt, finds a way to spoil his stepson's special day and runs off with Bella and with Chelsea and Willow in tow (Again, just like the MaGuire storyline and the season finale in 2013. But this time with no bomb). 

I'm a bit surprised with Willow telling Justin they were done, because I thought they were done months ago! I'm a bit unsure of whether I want her with Dean, because their friendship continues to be a very good thing on the show, and I don't want it to be ruined. And Robbo and Jasmine are engaged! I be thrilled, because things are going right for two of the few people I still care about on the show, if it wasn't coincided with Tori finding out that she's pregnant. At least she appears somewhat repentant towards Justin and Leah, but she still needs to tell Robbo the truth. But then how will that affect the engagement? 

And the show has done it again, completely ripping a good character of their human essence and ruining them just to make an exciting storyline. They did it with Josh, they to a lesser extent did it with Kyle and now they're doing it with Brody, one of my favourites. I can't understate how disappointed I am in him, after last week when he made it clear that he belonged to Ziggy, then sleeps with Simone, who also I have no sympathy for, sleeping with a man she knew was married,  and continues to keep it from his wife! What the hell happened to him, he used to be this nice guy, always looking out for friends and family, and has been extremely supportive for the Astoni family, and now he does this?! Shame on Brody, shame on Simone and shame on the writers for ruining him. I hope he gets caught out.