2021 Season - UK Episode Discussion

[Red Ranger 1]

So, Mackenzie collapses in the middle of the night but waits until the next morning to crawl to her phone? Was she unconscious a lot (which she wasn't at the end of the last episode)? On a similar note, Tane finds Dean with Ari and tells him Ziggy's looking for him.I assumed that was a code for her having gone to Emergency...but the next scene has Dean at Emergency waiting for Ziggy to arrive.Was she parking the car, or did she actually spend time wandering the hospital looking for him?

Anyway, even if she'd already decided to terminate the pregnancy, that's a pretty painful and traumatic way for Mackenzie to lose the baby and she's going to need a lot of support to process.It's sweet that Dean was the first person she wanted both when she collapsed and after surgery, but she didn't seem too keen on him sticking around later:Does she resent him for his lack of support?I'm on the fence about Tane telling Mia, since it just means one more person keeping things secret from Ari and he seems to be suspicious enough already.I'll assume good intentions with Mia going to see Mac but it was a terrible idea: Given that she's partly responsible for Mackenzie going through this alone, she's probably the second last person she wanted to see.

Alf, Roo and Marilyn are still killing time until John appears again, not helped by the fact that they're spending all their time trying to figure out something that we already know: John got Susie to set up another account in her name for the sponsorship money.

[Nephlim14]

On 03/05/2021 at 10:03, Red Ranger 1 said:

I don't think anyone came across that well with the abortion storyline.I can see where Dean's coming from, and I was fully in agreement that Ari should have been told back when Mackenzie was still deciding, but he is being a bit blinkered in thinking it's somehow going to be helpful to tell Ari that Mackenzie's having an abortion: He's better off not knowing.Of course, Dean doesn't know the full story there, but he probably should have just backed off and supported Mackenzie.Ziggy didn't come across any better, with her self-righteous rants and insistence on barking pro-choice slogans that are only tangentially relevant.Even when Tane called her out on her behaviour, it had less to do with what she said to Dean and more to do with her making generalisations about how terrible all men are.Of course, a lot of that is rendered moot with a rather disturbing cliffhanger, with Mackenzie convincingly in pain.

 

3 hours ago, Slade said:

 Ziggy really annoyed me when she had a go at Dean.  I didn't like the fact that he changed his mind about supporting his sister but I didn't like the way Ziggy was with him either.  Without mentioning what's in the preview, there is a concern with how Ari's going to react.

 

42 minutes ago, H&Alover said:

The abortion storyline was always going to be controversial, especially the not telling Ari bit of it.  It is only Tane, Ziggy and Mac who know about the babies Mia and he lost through no fault of their own and here's Mac choosing to finish her pregnancy when she does have  a choice.  Tane does know Ari best so knows what it would do to him.  Mac, of course, can't explain that part of it to Dean, because it's Ari's 'secret' and not hers to tell.  Mac didn't want Ari to know, even before knowing his history,  as he is now with Mia, and she doesn't want that to spoil that or him to be interested because he feels he ought to be. 

I feel Dean may be looking at it wrong, Amber keeping Jai a secret from him for five years may have been wrong, but she had her reasons, but he's here now and they are getting on fine.   

Ziggy was really on full time rant, hope she feels better now she's got that off her chest. Tane was, I thought, very restrained and he was so right she was tarring all men with the same brush.  The subject of babies didn't come up with her and Brody, Dean had said he didn't want kids because of Karen's condition, does that mean if she had fallen pregnant to either Brody or Dean she may have considered an abortion because the time wasn't right?   Tane did surprise me, in a good way, that he'd like kids, lots, one day.

1. I have no sympathy for Mackenzie, and I want someone to punch Ziggy. The issue was NEVER about Mac getting an abortion or not. It was about her alienating Ari from the situation just to make it easier for her pride. And it didnt help that the only thing they could do was hide behind gender politics to justify it. I dont know what kind of message they were trying to convey, but All I saw was two characters being massive hypocrites in a stroyline that wreaked of double standards, Ziggy being the worst offender.

2. Only one I feel bad for is Dean, because not only did he get treated like the bad guy for daring to disagree with Mac's lies but ONCE AGAIN he's forced to carry an ugly secret for a family member whose debatably taking it for granted. At least when Colby did it, he had better reasons. And for once Id like him to make a choice and NOT back down from it because someone bullied him into it or took advantage of his sense of loyalty.

The main thing that annoyed me was how he was made into the "Straw Mysoginist" by both them and the narrative in general They both acted like Dean was trying to force Mac to do something she didnt want to do. Mac acted as if Ari would try to force her to have the child against her will. Both of them kept acting like Dean was ignoring/didnt care about Mac's feelings in the situation. Yet IMO they were the ones doing all that, and hypocritically showing the same toxic sense of entitlement they claim men have.

All Dean did in every instance was just voice his opinion, and respectfully disagree. In all honesty, neither of them should have been surprised that he wasnt on board with hiding it from Ari, given everything he had to go through with Amber. While I will admiit Ziggy had a point that what Mac was doing was slightly different than what Amber did, it was understandable that he wasnt okay with alienating a biological parent from a child, especially one who always had his back. He never condemned/judged Mac, so Ziggy's rant was completely wrong. if he didnt want to take part in the situation, he was as much within his right to do so as Mac was in going to the clinic.

[Helena]

Just incase anyone would like to know the song that ziggy was singing is called chasing this by misterwives.

[H&Alover]

OK Mac, it seems, lied to Ziggy about Dean taking her to the clinic which was made clearer watching it again.  Not easy to put a proper time line of when Mac first collapsed, but it did take an eternity for her to reach her phone.  Those pesky glazed windows at the Farm, but why didn't Dean look through the living room window first?  

Tane and Ziggy we know both turned up at NDH together and maybe they did go looking for Dean separately, I can't recall, it did get pretty hectic.  Anyways, as only happens in soaps Ari spots Dean as he's downstairs in Emergency for whatever reason so Dean has to think on his feet.  Tane 'rescues' Dean but it leaves him thinking of an explanation to give to Ari who is no dummy.  If Mac came in by ambulance, he did call for one, wouldn't he have told the paramedics she was pregnant and they would have passed the info on, yet when we saw them come in Dean told Tori?

Sad news about the pregnancy being ectopic - there is no way to tell if that is going to be the case, especially a first one.    Mac didn't get as far  as going for a scan did she?  Very sensible questions asked by Dean I thought and no histrionics from anyone, I think they were all still in shock.  I don't think it would have mattered who it was, Mac just needed/wanted time to herself.  Mac deciding to end the pregnancy was her choice, but having the pregnancy ended for you is a wholly different thing.  It's a bizarre way of thinking but I believe it happens.  Could be  a part of Mac thinks she's being punished for considering an abortion.  

Tane and Ziggy were backed into a corner by Mia, her saying she was going to ask Ari tipped them over the edge.    At least they made it clear Ari didn't know about the baby.  How is Mia partly responsible, she was as  much in the dark about the pregnancy as Ari is. All she knew was Mac was Ari's girlfriend and he finished with her so he could start again with her.    Another woman could have told Ari she was up the duff the moment she found out and demanded he take part in the babies life/pay towards his/her upkeep.    I thought it was pretty gutsy of Mia to approach Mac and offer her sympathies, not knowing until Mac told her,  that she knew what she was going through because she did. 

As I thought Ziggy blamed herself for leaving Mac alone, but it could have happened anytime, anywhere. 

Alf was stymied by the cops freezing the Clubs account, but that it isn't going to help when he does get into it as they are OK. Lucky isn't it, though can be frustrating at times we know things the characters don't. All a case of them figuring it out for themselves. Wasn't the Fund account in John's name, that's where we saw the money being emptied from and into 'Susie McAlister's'.    I have to say I don't think much of the local business owners if they are baying for blood already, all these years Alf has served them, him doing most if the hard work I should add, the first sign, admittedly a BIG sign of trouble and all they care about it their money.   

Going back in time a bit when Susie first moved in with John wasn't she checking out some accounts she dug out of a drawer on the quiet, would they have been the committee members bank details and how much each was worth? 

 

[CaptainHulk]

LOL @ Ryder. That could have gone a lot worse. I'm thinking Des/Mr Udagawa Neighbours '89

I'm amazed no Neighbour kicked off at Dean for the alarm. 

"Outsmarted by Dean Thompson", It can get a lot worse, John.

[c120701]

Why would anyone want to swim in the Parata’s pool, it looks like it needs a good clean, it’s almost swamplike.

[Red Ranger 1]

21 hours ago, Nephlim14 said:

Mac acted as if Ari would try to force her to have the child against her will.

I don't think that's the case.I think Ari should have been involved in the decision, but once Mackenzie made the decision to have an abortion, telling Ari would just have been cruel.It seems like you're ignoring Tane's role in events (he was arguably the one most insistent Ari shouldn't be told), and possibly Amber's as well, in order to reduce this to a men v women situation.

Nikau's trick on Ryder was a bit mean-spirited although also very funny, and no harm done, as Ryder's essential kindness shone through even if he doesn't speak Maori.I was pleased that Ari didn't even warn him in jest, he accepted it was Chloe's choice.And Nikau now has to watch Ryder and Chloe make out even more, so karma.Mia turns out to be better at coming up with a cover story than most people in the know about Mackenzie's miscarriage.

Dean proves that no-one knows more about winding John up than him, and then doubled down by actually being extremely good at chatting to him: Better than Alf would have been frankly, although John now has to face the Wrath of Stewart.I'm not really sure what that account transfer Susie did was meant to be: It looked like she was emptying the contents of John's personal account into the fundraising account in her name but it may be the graphics failed to match what was scripted.(See also Susie completely failing to destroy her phone.)

[H&Alover]

Just what we needed a touch of humour, I didn't see it as mean spirited, Nik didn't get Ryder to say anything really bad, Ari just looked bemused by the whole speech and in a weird way appreciated Ryder's effort.   Mia doesn't speak Maori then and where was Tane, I'd thought he'd be there to welcome his brother home.  Had Ethan and Sophie done their three days? I thought Mia had twigged Ryder and Chloe were an item back at Salt but obviously not, she was as surprised as Ari. 

Both Bella and Nik now have to watch Chloe and Ryder make up for lost time, that store cupboard saw a lot of action last night.  It's the same with any newly attached couple - mostly young - they can't keep their hands or lips off each other.  Nik and Bella were the same not that long ago but you don't see it when you are part of it.

That was very subtle questioning of Ari by Mia, and what Ari said was true he and Mac hadn't got that far in their relationship to even begin talking about if either of them would want kids in the future, she didn't, don't forget, know anything about  Mia then or what he - or rather they - had been through. 

I know Dean has a lot on his mind but he didn't need to bite Ryder's head off like that and was very vague as to why Mac wouldn't be in work,  Ryder - if he is supposed to be in charge - needs to know something more. Has he got authority to do everything in Salt, authorise payments for deliveries, wages etc?  

Dean did, redeem himself by (a) knowing John better than he knew himself and (b) outwitting and outwaiting him.  Dean gave John good and wise advice, who'd thunk it eh, Dean has made many mistakes but although he hid himself away he came back and faced the music eventually.   John's had time to lick his wounds, go over what had happened even if he still doesn't understand it  and bit the bullet and faced The Alf!  Alf having another rant at John is not going to help.  

Did love the "outsmarted by Dean Thompson" line.

Does bring me to wonder as someone as already mentioned about John's car alarm going off,  on, off, on, off, were all the other neighbours away, deaf or dead?  You could clearly hear it in the Parata's but no-one said anything, no "What the heck is going on with Palmer's car, I'm going to sort it out". 

[Nephlim14]

13 hours ago, Red Ranger 1 said:

I don't think that's the case.I think Ari should have been involved in the decision, but once Mackenzie made the decision to have an abortion, telling Ari would just have been cruel.It seems like you're ignoring Tane's role in events (he was arguably the one most insistent Ari shouldn't be told), and possibly Amber's as well, in order to reduce this to a men v women situation.

I remembered what Tane said. I was referring to before he told Mac about Ari/Mia's past. Before she found out, Mac hid it from Ari because she didnt want him "beiing obligate to her". I was also referring to a comment she made about Ari deciing for her and basically how she and Ziggy kept reacting every time Dean either disagreed with them or said something they didnt want to hear. And from what I recall, Amber encouraged Mac to tell Ari.

I wasnt trying to make it a men vs women situation. But I will say that I do not like it when they try to make a feminist/womens right's story by having the featured character act as toxic as the misogynist theyre suppose to be against, which is why I think Ziggy was the worst in this story. IMO Ziggy was the one treating it like a men v woman thing and I wished someone had verbally b slapped her for her crud, especially after how she treated Dean. Demonising Dean, ignoring his feelingss on the matter (knowing darn well why he had issue with it), and trying to bully him into beiing the same blindly loyal lapdog that Colby felt entitled to. 

And I feel like I have to reiterate the point that Macs choice to have an abortion was never the issue in this situatiion. It was her hiding it from Ari for reasons that can basically be described as her being bitter about him breaking up with her. I dont know how they expected Dean to feel about that part knowing full well the garbage he had to go through with Amber.

5 hours ago, H&Alover said:

I know Dean has a lot on his mind but he didn't need to bite Ryder's head off like that and was very vague as to why Mac wouldn't be in work,  Ryder - if he is supposed to be in charge - needs to know something more. Has he got authority to do everything in Salt, authorise payments for deliveries, wages etc?  

Deans angst irritated me too when I saw it. But after thinking bout it, it seemed understandable. He's basically covering up a death for his family and again and from what I understand he never could handle holding on to a secret like that.

[Red Ranger 1]

5 hours ago, Nephlim14 said:

I remembered what Tane said. I was referring to before he told Mac about Ari/Mia's past.

Well, you were replying to comments made after that, and pretty much just repeating outdated arguments you made weeks ago instead of acknowledging the storyline had moved on.And indeed, you still are, because...

5 hours ago, Nephlim14 said:

And I feel like I have to reiterate the point that Macs choice to have an abortion was never the issue in this situatiion. It was her hiding it from Ari for reasons that can basically be described as her being bitter about him breaking up with her.

So, apparently you've forgotten what Tane said and Mackenzie's actual reason for keeping quiet just two paragraphs later!

Anyway, today.I thought at first that Ryder and Chloe were being deliberately over the top to wind Nikau and Bella up after the prank but... apparently they weren't? I do think Bella overreacted.She made a point about not being used to being around people, but really, she's had it for about two and a half years and this is the first time it's really been a problem.It doesn't help that we've not really seen her at home with Amber and Jai (she seems to spend all her time at the even-more-crowded Chez Parata).Even her scenes with Dean yesterday were a rare treat.Oh, and Chloe gets an Obligatory Bikini Scene!

It's treated as a throwaway detail, but at least we get confirmation that it was what it looked like and Susie did empty John's account. (Presumably she drew the money out of the Susie McAllister account very quickly, or else the police had their usual competence failure.) Last week, I felt Justin was handling the money loss better than Leah was.Today...Roo got it the wrong way round, they're both doing it wrong. Justin stomping around being angry with everyone won't solve anything, but neither will Leah insisting she's moved on while failing to make plans for the future.Justin's rant at John was horribly misaimed: It wasn't even John that introduced them to Susie, it was Christian. And yes, Justin pushed for a house they couldn't really afford.Has anyone worked out the moneylender was in league with Susie, or are they still having to pay the loan back? Anyway, Justin's way of avoiding things just makes things worse for him...