Main Site Updates

[Foxy]

Please see this part of my post, I have tried to offer up a compromise:

The only other thing I could suggest is checking out the "Picspam" that was put together for Geoff and Aden, which is in the Multimedia Section I think. You'd be welcome to post up something like that in there I think, so long as it follows a similar template.

We didn't stop making departure features for fear of bias, we stopped because we simply didn't have time. Our decision to not carry out a Tachel feature is not based on fear of being accused of bias,its purely because we don't have the time to do them anymore. The whole "bias" thing came up simply because we said that if we were to do one, then we'd get accused of it.

I can understand your frustration, I honestly can, but we've explained our reasons, which I think are perfectly justifiable.

There doesn't seem to be any way forward in this matter - we've stated our position and you've stated yours, so I think this'll be my last word on the matter, or we'll end up going round and round in circles!

[charmed60]

The only other thing I could suggest is checking out the "Picspam" that was put together for Geoff and Aden, which is in the Multimedia Section I think. You'd be welcome to post up something like that in there I think, so long as it follows a similar template.

I appreciate you attempting to compromise but I really don't see what a Picspam has to do with what we wanted to do for Tachel's departure?

And finally, I never expected you to do one for Tachel at all; you don't have time, I understand that. I just wish there was some way we could do something ourselves for them that you would allow us to include on this site.

[KirstyEkua]

I understand your reasons for not wanting to do one but i don't understand why, if the Tachel fans want to do something, you won't allow us to post it on the site or even do something in the CAD forum. This is supposed to be a fan board.

[Foxy]

I have directed you towards the Picspam in the Multimedia area - clearly nobody had looked at it properly, or you'd realise it isn't a million miles away from what you want to do.

Now please, can we put this to bed?

[Mistified]

So departure features are not being produced because staff don't have the time to do it? That's understandable, however the earlier reasons given on page 153 seemed to suggest more that because staff weren't getting recognition for it from forum members, that they spat the dummy and decided not to bother. You might not be getting paid, but you are still staff, and that means you take on the work and produce the website that not only the members and fans deserve, but also that I believe a show like H&A deserves. This website it a wonderful resource, and staff agreeing amongst themselves which sections to work on and which not to bother with based on not getting recognition, is doing this website a disservice. I would see the staff as custodians of this wonderful resource whose role is to produce the best and most deserving content they can before passing the baton to the next generation of staff members. If some staff members have chosen to cherry-pick what sections should get updated, then perhaps some new blood in the staff-room is the way forward.

Quite frankly, the attitude is quite sad. Nobody is bigger than BTTB, and if I was ever honoured enough to be made a staff member I would take the task on with pride. If I found it too time consuming or too thankless a job then I would resign and give somebody else a chance.

[Ryan]

http://www.backtothebay.net/characters/horton_mr.shtml

Everyones favourite District Inspector has made the site!

[Dan F]

This situation has been blown entirely out of proportion....

We have fully and thoroughly explained our reasons behind not creating a Tachel feature on the site, or hosting one created by forum members. If there is still any confusion over that, then here's a comprehensive list of them:

Lack of Time:

Due to maintaining the board, and creating other site content, the staff simply do not have time at the moment to undertake the extensive work that goes into a departure feature.

Lack of Interest:

Receiving feedback on our features is not about gaining recognition for ourselves (though a thank you is always appreciated), but about finding out what our members do and do not want. With a board of 17,500+ members, if only 5 people acknowledge that they've enjoyed the feature, then it would appear that it has only interested 5 people. Looking back at this thread, only 3 or 4 people have actually expressed any interest in having a Tachel feature which isn't enough to justify huge amounts of hours that goes into it. We figure that our time would be better spent concentrating on some of the core reference features for the site, such as character profiles, episode guides, locations etc.

Quality:

The truth of the matter is, if we allow members to submit their own work, we're going to run into the awkward situation where we have to turn people away because their work doesn't meet the standard we strive to maintain on the site. We run the site as a reference point for fans of the show, and for this reasons certain standards have to be met - and if we had to start doing that, we'd start getting - you guessed it - more abuse.

In addition to this, Foxy has already suggested a compromise, in the form of something similar to the ‘Picspam’ in the Creativity & Multimedia forum. I’ll post a link here just in case anyone is having trouble finding it and seeing what we mean: http://www.backtothebay.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=40821. In a thread similar to that you could easily post any artwork and links to fanfictions etc. - just as you requested.

We cannot express these points any more clearly. Although you may not agree with them, these are points we are not going to budge on, so in all honesty, you need to accept them.

As for those comments Mistified, frankly you couldn't be more wrong if you tried. It's not a case of us 'spitting the dummy' or not being bothered to do stuff, it's prioritising what features go on the site - and if we spend hours and hours on a departure feature which essentially repeats information in character profiles and episode guides, and only 5 or 6 people seem bothered about it, then our time can be better spent concentrating on other areas.

It is no coincidence that when departure features stopped, we were able to upload episode guides for every episode of the show that's aired, and continue our daily episode summaries (which we’re still doing behind the scenes at the moment, despite separate issues getting in the way of uploading). They seem to be a thankless task, but we carry on with them regardless, which shows that we are dedicated to providing a thorough reference point for fans of the show. Departure features merely serve to collate information on certain characters alongside a few pictures, but the truth of it is that all the information is already on the site in other mediums. We are not denying anybody access to the information, but merely choosing to present it in different ways.

It is quite telling that all we ever seem to be reminded of these days are of the things we don't do, rather than the things we do. We're not producing enough content, we're not releasing enough spoilers.... but is it any wonder when all we seem to get is abuse from people? We're not saying we need constant praise and encouragement, far from it, but once it a while it might be nice to hear something nice amongst the negativity we have to deal with. It is very easy to say from a member's point of view that the staff aren't doing their jobs properly, but I think until you've actually had the experience of what we have to deal with most of the time, you'd be a lot less inclined to judge.

http://www.backtothebay.net/characters/horton_mr.shtml

Everyones favourite District Inspector has made the site!

Cheers Ryan

[Mistified]

This situation has been blown entirely out of proportion....

As for those comments Mistified, frankly you couldn't be more wrong if you tried. It's not a case of us 'spitting the dummy' or not being bothered to do stuff, it's prioritising what features go on the site - and if we spend hours and hours on a departure feature which essentially repeats information in character profiles and episode guides, and only 5 or 6 people seem bothered about it, then our time can be better spent concentrating on other areas.

It is no coincidence that when departure features stopped, we were able to upload episode guides for every episode of the show that's aired, and continue our daily episode summaries (which we’re still doing behind the scenes at the moment, despite separate issues getting in the way of uploading). They seem to be a thankless task, but we carry on with them regardless, which shows that we are dedicated to providing a thorough reference point for fans of the show. Departure features merely serve to collate information on certain characters alongside a few pictures, but the truth of it is that all the information is already on the site in other mediums. We are not denying anybody access to the information, but merely choosing to present it in different ways.

It is quite telling that all we ever seem to be reminded of these days are of the things we don't do, rather than the things we do. We're not producing enough content, we're not releasing enough spoilers.... but is it any wonder when all we seem to get is abuse from people? We're not saying we need constant praise and encouragement, far from it, but once it a while it might be nice to hear something nice amongst the negativity we have to deal with. It is very easy to say from a member's point of view that the staff aren't doing their jobs properly, but I think until you've actually had the experience of what we have to deal with most of the time, you'd be a lot less inclined to judge.

Somebody's opinion is never wrong Dan. Isn't that constantly being preached to members in the discussion forums?

Thanks for fire-fighting the damage which some of your staff caused on page 153. It was in the context of those comments that I made my comments. The comments about not doing certain updates because they don't get thanked had left me so disgusted, but your more rational, diplomatic explanation has reassured me. You are probably BTTB's best asset, and I trust you believe you have the best possible team around you.

Negative feedback should be given the same voice as positive feedback however. As a member I am made feel that if I don't say thank you for spoilers and thank you for location updates (my two areas of interest) that I will have these privileges taken away from, and that was effectively confirmed on page 153. By the same token I have never ever felt I could comment when I think something is poor because again I feel there is no room for negative feedback on here.

As you are all amateurs with better things to do, and a living to earn, it is a shame that the O/S can't run a site like BTTB to ensure the fans of the show get what they want.

BTTB is, and can continue to be one great alternative though, just so long as egos don't mess it up.

[Home and Away]

There had to be some point where the staff were going to stop doing the departure features, it just happened to be during the time that Tony and Rachel departed, whether it be now or in a few years time. It just happens that it was now. Maybe they should have made an announcement about it, I don't know, but there is nothing and no-one stopping the fans from continuing discussion in the Tony and Rachel discussion thread.

Let's just thank Dan and his staff for all the work they do and will continue to do because no-one is making them do it and they aren't getting paid money for it. A little thank you every now and then isn't a hard ask I think.

[-Andrew-]

So departure features are not being produced because staff don't have the time to do it? That's understandable, however the earlier reasons given on page 153 seemed to suggest more that because staff weren't getting recognition for it from forum members, that they spat the dummy and decided not to bother. You might not be getting paid, but you are still staff, and that means you take on the work and produce the website that not only the members and fans deserve, but also that I believe a show like H&A deserves.

I don't see why they should create content purely because members deserve or want it. You and every other member are allowed to use the site and forum for free, BTTB owes you nothing and they never will.

staff agreeing amongst themselves which sections to work on and which not to bother with based on not getting recognition, is doing this website a disservice. If I found it too time consuming or too thankless a job then I would resign and give somebody else a chance.

I don't get this at all. They decided not to continue a feature on the grounds that it wasn't very popular and decided their talents would be best focussed elsewhere. I consider that to be a very professional and understandable decision, so for you to not so subtely suggest that some of the staff step down because they can't meet your expectations and that you would be better for the role is just pure rudeness.

Thankyou for everything BTTB, I really enjoy reading your contributions to the site, old and new. I particularly enjoy the complete episode guides, they've been a great help.

Edited August 17, 2010 by -Andrew-