2022 Season - UK Episode Discussion

[Red Ranger 1]

I found it impossible to feel anything other than disgust when I saw that shot of Marilyn driving back into town with Nikau and Roo. For all Nikau's attempt to paint her as a saint, Sloane was 100% spot-on that Marilyn wasn't interested in helping them: She was just there to make herself feel good and has abandoned them in turn now she's got what she wanted from them. Sloane should have kept that bag. And I found Roo's moral of "If these people here deserve a second chance, so do you" bordering on offensive: Is she seriously comparing Marilyn's situation (which is what, having to "rough it" for a few days by living on her own and doing charity work?) to people with no home, no money, no guaranteed food and no willing army of enablers ready to turn her back into her usual spoilt, pampered self? I might have taken Alf's cloying "We've all made mistakes" moral a bit more seriously if there wasn't a stark contrast between the sickly "You're so wonderful" way he treats Marilyn and the way he treats literally everyone else here, from the way he was virtually assaulting a police officer for doing his job last episode to the way he treated Irene, Leah and Justin like something he'd stepped in here. One rule for Marilyn and one rule for everyone else, not least of all Heather who I'm guessing no-one is going to be queuing up to give a second chance to because she's only a guest so she doesn't count. (And indeed Sloane, who just gets left on the street along with all the extras who aren't as important as Marilyn, and gets treated like the devil for daring to see Saint Marilyn for what she really is.) What the hell was that nonsense from Roo about Marilyn being strong? If "strong" means "facing up to your mistakes" by lying, running away and letting everyone make excuses for you, sure. If Marilyn really is just going to go back to her old life as if this whole thing never happened, something that she claimed was impossible five minutes earlier, then what the hell was the point of it? (As for none of them being affected by Marilyn's lies, John's tyres and Leah's front room might disagree. It's not just the lies she's been telling for 27 years, it's the fact she's been manipulating and gaslighting her friends ever since she found out who Heather was, yet incredibly they're all blaming themselves for "not listening to her". What does it take?!)

On a similar note, were we seriously meant to see Justin as in the wrong here? Ziggy made a promise that she didn't keep. I get she was worried about the baby, but she was pretty much on her way to work when she felt pains, and not once in the hours that followed did she think to send Justin a quick text explaining she couldn't open the garage. When he turned up, his first thought was that something was wrong with her yet she did everything she could to make him think that no, nothing was wrong, she just forgot she's got a job to go to. Aside from him not letting her get a word in edgeways during his later explosion, he did nothing wrong: She had ample opportunity to explain what happened afterwards but just decided to be difficult for the hell of it. But no doubt he'll be forced to come grovelling to her when someone finally deigns to fill him in.

[Red Ranger 1]

7 hours ago, atrus said:

They've labelled them with dates of both broadcasts, actually, which may have been what threw me.

As far as I can see, they've got both dates on the actual episode, but on the menu page they've just got the Channel 5 dates.

(I have to admit, your reference to Martha just reminds me that's another character who abandoned her daughter, as in left her with the other parent and expected him to do a good job, and even though that didn't turn out too badly, she was rightly called out for it in the way that no-one's willing to do with Marilyn.)

[pembie]

I agree with you Red about Marilyn I found the whole thing very eye rolling considering Heather is meant to be the villain Marylin came out looking like the evil stepmother it backfired really plus they cast someone very sexy to play Heather so yeah I didn’t mind her at all haha The only thing I’m on Marilyn for is how bad Roo came across as her so called best friend 

[atrus]

14 hours ago, Red Ranger 1 said:

(As for none of them being affected by Marilyn's lies, John's tyres and Leah's front room might disagree. It's not just the lies she's been telling for 27 years, it's the fact she's been manipulating and gaslighting her friends ever since she found out who Heather was, yet incredibly they're all blaming themselves for "not listening to her". What does it take?!)

Not saying she's blameless, but it feels like Marilyn is shouldering a larger share of the blame than she's owed here. The tyres and front room still fall very much under the "scenarios she couldn't reasonably have envisaged" category for me. I think "manipulating and gaslighting" is a pretty strong way of putting it, really, unless you're talking about Heather herself who was doing exactly that to Marilyn and her friends from the very outset - I'll admit that Heather's surprise arrival led to Marilyn making some very poor choices herself, but she certainly wasn't acting maliciously, she was responding poorly to difficult circumstances which I'd argue were significantly exacerbated by Heather manifesting as such a creeper. If Heather had simply showed up like a normal adult and introduced herself - angrily and bitterly and demanding answers would have been absolutely fair, but not lurking around being underhanded and threatening - then none of those events would have needed to unfold. Roo et al also have to shoulder a little bit of the responsibility here for having just assumed Maz was still high on organophosphates, which I think made her feel less inclined to open up so readily to them about her past as she might have done had Heather just introduced herself in the usual way.

14 hours ago, Red Ranger 1 said:

One rule for Marilyn and one rule for everyone else, not least of all Heather who I'm guessing no-one is going to be queuing up to give a second chance to because she's only a guest so she doesn't count. (And indeed Sloane, who just gets left on the street along with all the extras who aren't as important as Marilyn, and gets treated like the devil for daring to see Saint Marilyn for what she really is.)

I think if you're determined to condemn Marilyn, then it doesn't make a great deal of sense that you wouldn't also be determined to condemn Heather. Personally, though, I'd like to see both of them given a second chance (stepmum in the chest freezer notwithstanding). I accept that Marilyn benefits from "regular's privilege" in this case where Heather hasn't, but she's far from alone in having done that.

I'm not sure what you expected to happen with Sloane other than her being left on the street; maybe 30 years ago we'd have seen her drafted in to live with Pippa after a 'tude-laden intro like that. But alas, unless she can play bass or has an uninteresting sibling in the police force, it's unlikely she'd be welcomed into the Summer Bay fold in the present climate (which is probably why we won't see Heather as a regular either).

Apologies for the essay (this character managed to wind me up inordinately in her few minutes on-screen), but I'm not sure how it can be argued that Sloane was "treated like the devil"; they were all pretty nice to her, and arguably undeservingly. She stole Maz's bag and was unnecessarily rude and obnoxious to her both beforehand and afterwards, yet even after all that, Maz was still falling over herself to apologise for having offended her sensibilities by having had the temerity to make conversation. Nikau was also nice to her; if he viewed her as the devil, he could have called the police and barricaded her in the tent until they got there, but he didn't - he politely sat and explained Marilyn's situation - not that it needed justifying to Sloane, frankly. (And did he not make a fair point about Maz helping the Paratas when they had nowhere to live?) It's only when Sloane followed Nikau back to the food bank and started mouthing off again, about Marilyn using her to replace Heather, that Roo (perfectly politely) suggested she leave them to it. Which under the circumstances I don't think was altogether unreasonable. It's not that I don't think Sloane's assessment of Maz's motivations has a degree of merit - but let's face it, if helping others didn't make people feel better about themselves then the charity sector would be nonexistent, and Sloane would have no food bank and no food bank volunteers' bags to steal - so I'm not really sure what her argument was in service of, other than the massive chip on her shoulder. I don't speak for homeless people, but from those I have spoken to who have asked for food in the street and who have been extremely grateful when I've helped, I would imagine at least some of them would consider her attitude pernickety and ungracious. Don't get me wrong: I'm not saying anybody should have to justify being given a meal, or to stoop and fawn by way of gratitude. But gobbing off at people who have stepped up to help because you suspect they don't meet your impeccable standards of altruism - and then nicking off with their possessions when their backs are turned - isn't really sustainable moral high-ground, either.

Anyway... onto today...

I wasn't really expecting to see Marilyn making her statement; from the timbre of her last scene in yesterday's episode it felt like all was considered resolved and we were going to skip over it. So it's good that we're not quite dropping the storyline yet. I will concede that Maz's level of concern for Heather seems on the face of it to be a bit lacklustre; she enquired after her health with Rose, who evidently didn't know much, but Maz just seemed to accept "I'm sure she's getting the help she needs" as gospel, without trying to enquire or engage further; and she earlier stated how guilty she felt for "abandoning her all over again" - well, in which case, why not rethink that abandonment? My guess is that Maz is still feeling too traumatised and low about herself to make that step at the moment, and I do think this is understandable for anyone who had been through the events of the finale - but in time I hope she comes round and feels able to engage with Heather again.

I get why Justin's mad about Ziggy dropping the ball, but he's coming over as a bit imperious and quick to decision, rather than just sitting down and having a calm chat. I know it's not entirely the point, but I can't help but remember how Ziggy held the fort singlehandedly at the garage while he was popping painkillers and being extremely unreliable, and he wasn't exactly fulsome in thanking her for it, either. Even so, there's definitely wrong on both sides here - yesterday it was at least arguable that Justin didn't give Ziggy a proper chance to explain, but here she shows she has no intention of so doing anyway. I don't know why she was so insistent on keeping the truth from Justin, other than because drama. Being pregnant isn't an 'excuse'; she had legitimate medical reasons for the garage slipping her mind yesterday. But if she's not prepared to say so, then of course she's going to look flaky and unreliable in his eyes.

Jacob reminds me of someone I knew a long time ago, who wasn't violent but was an emotional manipulator who was good at superficially acknowledging his own weaknesses in order to retain control of others. Bad news that he's decided to stick around permanently; the one consolation is that his status on the closing credits would still suggest otherwise.

[pembie]

I’m going to say for how good it sounded in the Australian thread when it was airing there I don’t think the Bree and Jacob is very good for a abuse story I don’t think it carries much threat or it doesn’t feel that scary We needed to see a slow build too it and build it around their relationship and then realise something isn’t right and at least see Jacob hit Bree I do like Remi though he seems too cool too be in Lyric 

[H&Alover]

Was it just me in wanting to smack Roo one in the gob?  She was back in her very, very annoying mode first by badgering Cash into telling her and Alf where Marilyn was then tracking her down!  She just wouldn't shut up, nagging and nagging, made made a mess  of handing out the food.  I'd have been very tempted to empty it over her head, if it hadn't been a waste.  Marilyn is having a bit of a tough time and she obviously felt she needed some time away.  She would have to come back to the bay anyway at some time to give her statement, Cash told her so when he rang her. Why couldn't Roo and the others let her have some time there, she hadn't been 'missing' that long.  I'm guessing she had got her meds on her, Maz was a bit, well a big bit dumb, just leaving her bag in the back of an open van. 

Atrus got it right and was just what I was thinking Marilyn has always seen the best in people. Maybe that is how she got herself in whatever it was at the Frazer's.  

I'm so glad I do it the 'new old fashioned' way by recording the afternoon edition and  watching it in the evening. So sad some find it slow having to watch episode by episode. Also has been said you do miss things.  I wondered if I'd missed something when Roo said she was off to the city - aka Sydney  - when just a few moments earlier Cash was telling them he couldn't say where Marilyn was.  

Sloane - posh name for a street girl/woman - wasn't anything like Heather.  Not the wisest idea for Nik to tell her about Marilyn having 'lost' a daughter her age, but he had already told her how Maz had taken him and his family in when they were homeless which didn't cut much ice.  I suppose she was right in a way people like Marilyn who do mean to do  their best going  there to help but they don't stick around.  She was proved right, Marilyn has gone home. 

We can't always have exciting things going on.  I'm guessing Ziggy didn't think to call Justin - neither did Dean for that matter - as she had more urgent things on her mind.  I supposing Justin's attitude didn't exactly induce her to tell him the real reason why she didn't open the garage.  It is her first pregnancy and it was better safe than sorry.  I'm sure Dean didn't mean to be demeaning to Xander, he must get a lot of that and Dean did apologise later. 

Xcuse me but Theo wasn't 'looking' at Kirby's phone, not in the way she thought, it just happened to ring when it was sitting beside him, it was something anyone would do. But she has told Bob no, can't see him letting it go though.  

On the subject of Felicity not being asked if they included  her being in the vid, did they ask Tane if he was OK about it? Or anyone else in it for that matter.  Cash may have told Eden they can't even just be friends which did hurt her, but it was too early so maybe in the future?

[c120701]

On 10/01/2023 at 00:01, Red Ranger 1 said:

Last time I checked Morag was a lawyer, not a private detective? I don't recall her being much use tracking people down in the past?

I meant they’d use her contacts.

Ziggy & Dean not just telling Justin about the scare with the baby is doing my head in. 

[Antzz]

Quick rant i'm sick and tired of the Bree/Remi and Jacob storyline its become so tedious , its like the Duracell batteries they go on and on and one

[Antzz]

8 hours ago, pembie said:

I’m going to say for how good it sounded in the Australian thread when it was airing there I don’t think the Bree and Jacob is very good for a abuse story I don’t think it carries much threat or it doesn’t feel that scary We needed to see a slow build too it and build it around their relationship and then realise something isn’t right and at least see Jacob hit Bree I do like Remi though he seems too cool too be in Lyric 

I agree the storyline isn't that believable and there is no back story to it . I like Remi i just don't think he should have been chosen for the Bree storyline .

[Red Ranger 1]

I'm going to try very very hard not to rant too much here but I might not succeed.

10 hours ago, atrus said:

Not saying she's blameless, but it feels like Marilyn is shouldering a larger share of the blame than she's owed here. The tyres and front room still fall very much under the "scenarios she couldn't reasonably have envisaged" category for me. I think "manipulating and gaslighting" is a pretty strong way of putting it, really, unless you're talking about Heather herself who was doing exactly that to Marilyn and her friends from the very outset - I'll admit that Heather's surprise arrival led to Marilyn making some very poor choices herself, but she certainly wasn't acting maliciously, she was responding poorly to difficult circumstances which I'd argue were significantly exacerbated by Heather manifesting as such a creeper. If Heather had simply showed up like a normal adult and introduced herself - angrily and bitterly and demanding answers would have been absolutely fair, but not lurking around being underhanded and threatening - then none of those events would have needed to unfold. Roo et al also have to shoulder a little bit of the responsibility here for having just assumed Maz was still high on organophosphates, which I think made her feel less inclined to open up so readily to them about her past as she might have done had Heather just introduced herself in the usual way.

I'd say it's very much a case of like mother, like daughter, except Heather was obviously in the middle of a breakdown, so what's Marilyn's excuse? You're putting all the responsibility on Heather to tell the truth, whilst ignoring the fact that Marilyn didn't want her to and outright insisted she mustn't. After John's tyres were slashed, I'd say that similar incidents were a distinct possibility and certainly not "scenarios she couldn't reasonably have envisaged". Instead, Marilyn consistently lied to her friends and to the police and covered up for Heather, contributing to things escalating. I'd say that "gaslighting and manipulating" is a very very good description of Marilyn's behaviour. She repeatedly insisted to John that he was wrong about Heather and that she was the one who'd slashed his tyres (after previously denying it and making him out to be a horrible person for accusing her). She outright lied to her friends that she was off her medication to stop them asking questions while simultaneously gaining her sympathy. And, sure, Heather could have just turned up and announced she was Marilyn's daughter. But let's not forget, after Marilyn and Heather finally put aside the pretense and admitted to each other who they were, Heather was the one that wanted to tell people the truth and Marilyn was the one who insisted on keeping it secret with an extremely flimsy excuse, when it's pretty clear that the real reason, as she's repeatedly told us, was "I'm so ashamed and I don't want people to look at me the wrong way." She put her reputation ahead of her daughter's mental health. Even when Nikau tried to tell her that being treated like a dirty little secret was taking its toll on Heather, Marilyn's response wasn't to be a grown-up for once in her life and tell the truth, it was to tell more lies to her friends so they'd stop asking questions about Heather. If she hadn't been so desperate to hide that part of her past, things might not have gone as far as they did. And yes, you can argue that Marilyn had no reason to expect things to go that far, but she wasn't playing fair by either her daughter or her friends by treating them the way she did.

10 hours ago, atrus said:

I'm not sure how it can be argued that Sloane was "treated like the devil"; they were all pretty nice to her, and arguably undeservingly. 

It's only when Sloane followed Nikau back to the food bank and started mouthing off again, about Marilyn using her to replace Heather, that Roo (perfectly politely) suggested she leave them to it.

It's not that I don't think Sloane's assessment of Maz's motivations has a degree of merit - but let's face it, if helping others didn't make people feel better about themselves then the charity sector would be nonexistent, and Sloane would have no food bank and no food bank volunteers' bags to steal - so I'm not really sure what her argument was in service of, other than the massive chip on her shoulder.

Well, the second bit kind of answers the first bit. Apart from the fact that I would describe Roo's response not as "perfectly politely" but as "rudely dismissing her for daring to tell Saint Marilyn some much-needed home truths because she was getting in the way of Roo trying to convince her of the exact opposite". As for the other bit, it's not just a case of Marilyn only doing it to make herself feel better but the fact that, for all Nikau's cloying "She genuinely cares" claims, Marilyn behaved exactly as Sloane said she would: Treated them like a tourist attraction, turned up for a few days for a "seretonin boost", then disappeared off back to her old life once she'd got bored having not really done anything to make anyone's life better except maybe her own. (There seemed to be plenty of people there who would have dished up the food if Marilyn hadn't turned up. As, indeed, they'll do every other day from now on.)

Anyway, onto happier times...That episode wasn't anywhere near as bad as I expected. Given that Rose has seemed pretty anti-Heather in the past, I was fully expecting her to be another one telling Marilyn that she's done nothing wrong and Heather's evil, and probably throwing in the fact she's a murderer as well. (As it is, I'm still giving Heather the benefit of the considerable doubt on that one, and beginning to suspect that the whole body in the freezer thing was only thrown in so the spoilers could call Heather a "suspected murderer" and make us think someone we'd actually met was dead.) Instead, Rose was pleasingly professional and I was glad to get an update on Heather and learn that the legal system appears to be treating her with more compassion than Irene's "Lock her up and throw away the key" policy. Like I said, I think a stay in a mental health hospital and then heading off for a fresh start would be a better fate for her than either prison or a reunion with Marilyn. Unfortunately, instead of leaving us on the note of Marilyn upset about how things have turned out, we get a shoehorned-in scene of Marilyn magically snapping back to being "lovely bubbly Marilyn" while everyone gushes about how great it is to see her back to her old self, when that could have waited until next week. I'm sure it's an act, but it's an act she's kept up for 27 years and she probably won't drop it now.

(To put a rather dark spin on this, I continue to feel Roo and Alf pretty much bullying Marilyn into coming home and playing the role they want her to play is not the best thing for her at all and they should have left her to try and make up for her guilt by helping people.But the show's status quo needs to be restored, and Emily seems to be a lifer so they need Marilyn back in Summer Bay.)

Meanwhile, having predicted Justin would be villainised last episode, I'm pleased that that hasn't happened at all. Ziggy is keeping quiet about what happened not to punish him or so it can be thrown in his face later, but because she doesn't want special treatment. And give him his credit, even though Dean tried to have a friendly word, he's respected Ziggy's wishes and kept quiet. Justin was a bit quick to cut back Ziggy's hours, and I'm sure that sooner or later there'll be a scene where he finds out the whole story and feels bad, but it's not being played as back and white as I feared.

I do find the Bree/Jacob storyline to be the weakest on display, but I disagree with complaints about the lack of menace.Jacob exudes threat. Every time he and Bree are alone, there's a feeling that he's a coiled spring that could turn on her at any moment. Even when they're out in public and he's playing the doting husband, there's the concern that he might see or hear something he doesn't like and take it out on her when they're alone. I think my main problem is that we know he's a wrong 'un, Remi and Eden know he's a wrong 'un, and even Bree knows he's a wrong 'un, so how long can they drag this out without progressing things? I get that it's not easy to get out of a relationship like that, but some sort of road map to where this is going would be nice. It was very telling that Bree referred to her being on her own in the Bay without Jacob as "normal". With Eden having used up her episodes, Mackenzie gets drafted in as Remi's confidante and actually worked rather well even though they've had little if any one-on-one interaction before now.