Does H&A need an overhaul at the moment?

[CaptainHulk]

^ Because Andrew Burt didn't want to be typecast and didn't see the show surviving more than a year, max. 

[adam436]

On 15/04/2024 at 21:43, Homeandawayfan. said:

Corrie, Brookside, EE and Neighbours etc never went for such a radical change the way ED and H&A did. Never watched Hollyoaks so cannot comment.

I've only been watching Hollyoaks regularly since 2013 and seen older episodes available on Hollyoaks Favourites, but from what I understand the original premise of Hollyoaks was about a group of college students, and it has morphed into being about the characters in the village as a whole. 

Hollyoaks has recently had a new producer who has really shaken things up. The upcoming cast and episode reduction aside (I feel like that's a separate issue and not part of the changes currently playing out onscreen), she's axed a bunch of characters who were spare parts or didn't really add much, reintroduced the iconic Freddie Roscoe, started some intense but well-written teen issue stories (Frankie's abuse, Ro's transition, Lucas' sexuality) and completely shaken up some stories that were treading water and a bore to watch (the Sienna/Rafe/Dilly story being the prime example!). 

It's not all great though - many of the newer regulars aren't doing it for me and I've no interested in one of the main storylines at the moment (the Ste/Warren stuff), but on the whole it's really shaken things up and made it more exciting to watch. 

H&A could really benefit from something similar - perhaps part of me is still mourning the loss of the early years H&A and if I wasn't comparing it to that, I might enjoy it more, but I feel like the volume of cookie-cutter twentysomethings really limiting in terms of storylines. It's all relationship dramas or Lyrik stuff at the moment with not much else in between. It's pretty much a PG rated Secret Life of Us at the moment and it's not really working for me because the the PG rating is somewhat limiting and those more adult soaps have fewer episodes per year/week.  

I'd be curious to know what demographic H&A's audience is - if it's not teenagers and families anymore, I am starting to think that a move to a later-night timeslot would actually help to shake things up (keeping in mind it would still be available for streaming for those who don't watch it "live", so it might not be as damaging to viewership as people think!). 

[Homeandawayfan.]

H&A always had a far fetched side to it but was also quite realistic in the 1980s and 1990s. Summer Bay being a relatively isolated town by the sea with not much for locals to do in the pre social media days - apart from  a community hall, play area, the surf club, diner and shop in the early years, and no doubt a number of unseen Summer Bay residents out of work, like you would get in real life. Hence why many of the youngsters in the show got up to light mischief, such as the bromance "Lartin" Lance and Martin, and later on Damo and Shane. The original premise was that foster children from the city would be living in Summer Bay and give the bay a shake up.

Erinsborough was not much different in Neighbours, it was a outer suburb with the city being a good half hour drive/bus ride away. And only Lassiters for local entertainment.

Edited April 22 by Homeandawayfan.

[stevester55]

On 20/04/2024 at 23:16, adam436 said:

I've only been watching Hollyoaks regularly since 2013 and seen older episodes available on Hollyoaks Favourites, but from what I understand the original premise of Hollyoaks was about a group of college students, and it has morphed into being about the characters in the village as a whole. 

Hollyoaks has recently had a new producer who has really shaken things up. The upcoming cast and episode reduction aside (I feel like that's a separate issue and not part of the changes currently playing out onscreen), she's axed a bunch of characters who were spare parts or didn't really add much, reintroduced the iconic Freddie Roscoe, started some intense but well-written teen issue stories (Frankie's abuse, Ro's transition, Lucas' sexuality) and completely shaken up some stories that were treading water and a bore to watch (the Sienna/Rafe/Dilly story being the prime example!). 

It's not all great though - many of the newer regulars aren't doing it for me and I've no interested in one of the main storylines at the moment (the Ste/Warren stuff), but on the whole it's really shaken things up and made it more exciting to watch. 

H&A could really benefit from something similar - perhaps part of me is still mourning the loss of the early years H&A and if I wasn't comparing it to that, I might enjoy it more, but I feel like the volume of cookie-cutter twentysomethings really limiting in terms of storylines. It's all relationship dramas or Lyrik stuff at the moment with not much else in between. It's pretty much a PG rated Secret Life of Us at the moment and it's not really working for me because the the PG rating is somewhat limiting and those more adult soaps have fewer episodes per year/week.  

I'd be curious to know what demographic H&A's audience is - if it's not teenagers and families anymore, I am starting to think that a move to a later-night timeslot would actually help to shake things up (keeping in mind it would still be available for streaming for those who don't watch it "live", so it might not be as damaging to viewership as people think!). 

Yes sadly the show has lost it's identity. Loved it years ago but so different now sadly.. Need new family's and the opening titles back as i so miss the opening titles which is such a great shame as they were beautiful 

[adam436]

8 hours ago, stevester55 said:

Yes sadly the show has lost it's identity. Loved it years ago but so different now sadly.. Need new family's and the opening titles back as i so miss the opening titles which is such a great shame as they were beautiful 

I can't see any new families being introduced to be honest. The closest we are going to get is all the sets of adult siblings.

The next family until to enter the show will be the Braxtons. Heath's kids are old enough to have their own storylines now. The show could introduce some proper family units while still keeping the dark and adult tone about it, therefore still appealing to the more adult audience. 

Like, the teenage storylines could be the issue-based stuff like drugs, teen pregnancies, self-harm etc. rather than just teenage crushes and school dramas.

[Homeandawayfan.]

I feel H&A would be much more tolerable to watch if not for the sinister underscore music. Or at least have a reduction of the sinister generic underscore music.

 

[James Martin]

On 15/04/2024 at 12:43, Homeandawayfan. said:

Emmerdale was another show that had a huge change 1993-1995 with the exit of the first farmhouse, and Demdyke Row, plus the exit of Joe, Annie and Amos, and the tonal shift.

I'd argue Emmerdale had to change to stay on air.  The Phil Redmond reboot is a fascinating story; the ITV network gave Yorkshire Television an ultimatum; "You're going to have to do something quick, or get axed." Carlton in London in particular were spending what Phil Redmond described as "A Hell of a lot of cash on research to convince the network to scrap it and commission a new soap from them instead."

When he was bought on board, Redmond quickly realised the whole business model of Yorkshire Television was dependent on Emmerdale.  Take that out and everything from Calendar News to Countdown would be on shaky ground (remember they were paying an absolute fortune in annual franchise payments to the ITC.)

So the top brass in Leeds basically said "You can have whatever you want Phil, whatever it takes; just fix it."

And how. Phil's solution was "we need to do something that will firstly interest the viewer but secondly arrest the criticism from both the media and the industry itself." So a plane got dropped on the village, and that was followed up with the Post Office/Home Farm siege and the introduction of the Dingles.

But the interesting thing Redmond talks about is how it was important to keep the rural USP; because that's what made it different from Corrie, EastEnders and Brookie.  Even now I'd argue that whilst the drama has been ramped up far more than it ever was in the 90's, Emmerdale is still identifiably rural.

I'd argue Home & Away has not held onto its USP as strongly.  It isn't made to compete with British soaps but that seaside setting is surely what set it apart from Neighbours.  The fostering USP set it aside from everyone, but whilst the production values have come on leaps and bounds since the show's 90's heyday, that's been lost now.  It doesn't really have a USP over Neighbours (though Summer Bay is, I suppose, ruralish compared to Erinsborough) and certainly doesn't have any USP over the British soaps

That said whilst Emmerdale has moved away from farming, the enormous success of Clarkson's Farm has shown that done right, farming storylines could still work.

[Homeandawayfan.]

2 hours ago, James Martin said:

I'd argue Emmerdale had to change to stay on air.  The Phil Redmond reboot is a fascinating story; the ITV network gave Yorkshire Television an ultimatum; "You're going to have to do something quick, or get axed." Carlton in London in particular were spending what Phil Redmond described as "A Hell of a lot of cash on research to convince the network to scrap it and commission a new soap from them instead."

When he was bought on board, Redmond quickly realised the whole business model of Yorkshire Television was dependent on Emmerdale.  Take that out and everything from Calendar News to Countdown would be on shaky ground (remember they were paying an absolute fortune in annual franchise payments to the ITC.)

So the top brass in Leeds basically said "You can have whatever you want Phil, whatever it takes; just fix it."

And how. Phil's solution was "we need to do something that will firstly interest the viewer but secondly arrest the criticism from both the media and the industry itself." So a plane got dropped on the village, and that was followed up with the Post Office/Home Farm siege and the introduction of the Dingles.

But the interesting thing Redmond talks about is how it was important to keep the rural USP; because that's what made it different from Corrie, EastEnders and Brookie.  Even now I'd argue that whilst the drama has been ramped up far more than it ever was in the 90's, Emmerdale is still identifiably rural.

I'd argue Home & Away has not held onto its USP as strongly.  It isn't made to compete with British soaps but that seaside setting is surely what set it apart from Neighbours.  The fostering USP set it aside from everyone, but whilst the production values have come on leaps and bounds since the show's 90's heyday, that's been lost now.  It doesn't really have a USP over Neighbours (though Summer Bay is, I suppose, ruralish compared to Erinsborough) and certainly doesn't have any USP over the British soaps

That said whilst Emmerdale has moved away from farming, the enormous success of Clarkson's Farm has shown that done right, farming storylines could still work.

CS, EE, Brookside and Neighbours have always been city/suburban soaps I agree. H&A and Emmerdale have always been more rural as Summer Bay is semi rural, as it is an isolated seaside town. In the early years of the show Summer Bay deffo was a daggy hick town, with basic facilities and a couple of schools. The only real meet up place when the show began was Ailsa's store with a 1 table cafe area and a pinball machine. Then the Diner came along in late 1988 and the Surf Club in August 1989.

Erinsborough has always been a suburb, and the city centre about half an hour drive away, and we have Lassiters complex which always had good facilities. I think Summer Bay was about 2 hours from the city. I feel that is why CS, EE and Neighbours were more popular in the UK than ED and H&A due to the city/suburb setting, and Brookside by Channel 4 ratings standards, was a hit. I feel viewers associated more with suburban settings such as a Liverpool outer cul de sac, East London square, Melbourne suburb and a cobbled street in Salford near Manchester, than to associate with a show set in the remote Yorkshire countryside, or a isolated Australian seaside town, which was not as compelling.

Edited August 8 by Homeandawayfan.

[Dag Dog]

In essence, the entire show needs to be totally recentered to shift perspectives around. What we once had - a multi-generational series that following all facets of life, with a particular focus on adolescence - has turned into something of a similar nature, yet totally different. What we are stuck with is a series of stories that go round-and-round that should be given to teenagers, but instead are lumped on adults who are appear stupid due to the reactions because that's the only demographic the show seems gung-ho on having.

Forget anyone over 40 (unless you've been on the show 10 years+, with the exception of Justin) and if you're under 22, don't even bother...

In the not so distant past, the show was very segmented - and to an extent, still is. Whilst cross-pollination has gotten better, the idea of Irene getting involved with Lyrik - a story that not only once may have been done in a time when the show respected its past, would have at least added a bit of spice to an otherwise plain as flour arc - is totally sidelined, rendered non-existent despite her quite well-known past as a musician. In place of what? Yet another round-about story surrounding jobless Eden and her bland cop boyfriend or jobless Remi and his doctor or jobless Kirby and her... microphone? ...

Spoiler

Meanwhile a story - yes, thankfully at least she got one - that could have seen Irene head off with country singing sister Wendy wanting to explore a chance that was missed, was passed by because someone thought excellent viewing was seeing Irene on the booze... again...?

The unfortunate reality is that there are so many stories to tell that involve multiple generations... When was the last time any vet got a decent story? Just seems like a certain few aren't interested...

But it's an easy fix - and quite a quick one too... It's a shame it will never truly be realised.

[James Martin]

I mean if you wanted to do a complete reset, you'd need to do something very bold; like drop a plane on Summer Bay.  That's how it happened in Emmerdale; Phil Redmond quickly worked out there's no major road or train line nearby which are available options if you need a big stunt in an urban soap.  Summer Bay doesn't have those.  You could potentially have a tsunami but the option to film that convincingly just isn't there.

Like Emmerdale, Home & Away also has a very widespread geography compared to the tight setup of Corrie, EastEnders and Neighbours.  It's ideal if you want to blow up random bits, revamp some sets and do a cast clear out.